Brother dealing with DV case at work

[Cericwtch]

My brother has a colleague at work who is a victim of DV. This person has only ever had relationships where DV was a factor. She grew up witnessing it, her brother is in prison (reason unknown but something violent), it’s literally been this woman’s whole life.
As is the case with many in this situation, this person finds all excuses under the sun to stay with her abuser.
However, this woman is no wallflower, she perpetuates situations. Argues and ‘winds up’ her partner knowing how things will end. It’s an awful situation.
However, my brother has tried to help this person on more than one occasion. He’s got the police involved, liaised with specialist officers, all trying to help her detach herself from the situation but she just keeps going back. Over and over again.
Each time my brother tries to help, suggests a police escort to help her remove her belongings from the marital home etc etc. Nothing ever happens. The woman hates the police, always says she’ll leave but never does.
My issue is that my brother is the person this woman runs to every time another violent attack happens, and he tries his utmost every time to help. It really affects him. It’s now affecting his home life as this occurs every couple of weeks. It’s now affecting his own home life as he goes home to his wife and family but then spends all night trying to play social worker to his colleague.
AIBU to try and encourage him to have his boss try and deal with the situation rather than him?
The woman sits and goads her partner, not that DV is in any way OK, but she literally winds him up to get a reaction, instead of just leaving the guy.
I don’t know what do I’m just tired of seeing my brother upset over this and now starting to
see the strain it’s putting on his own relationship.
The woman needs professional help - something that my brother is not qualified in.

He needs to stop, she may use her relationship with him and play it off to the boyfriend dispute it being just a friendship and him trying to help. He could be at risk her if the person is violent and sees your bother as a threat. It's really important that this stops

He's crossed the boundaries here. If HR are useless then he goes back to the Head of HR and tells them to step up. He doesn't step in.
SIL is quite right to step in and Brother should now be assured this woman is in the right place for help. He can't be her saviour

You need to spell out to your brother that his marriage is at risk here. Who is more important, this woman or his wife?

A pp was right that he has been given a role in the drama.

This woman is deeply enmeshed in her situation because, as you say, this is all she has ever known. She goads and picks fights with her partner rather than leaving him because the calm and the peace feels uncomfortable and unnerving to her. The violence hurts emotionally, mentally and physically but here is a comfort in it too. It's 'predictable' and familiar. She needs far more help than your brother will ever be able to provide.

Your brother is behaving very inappropriately. He doesn't understand dv, doesn't have the skillset to support this woman or deal with the situation appropriately and doesn't have the supervision that therapists have to help him to deal with the impact it's having on him. He hasn't put any boundaries in place so it is now impacting on his home life.

His involvement could actually be making the situation worse.

Exactly this. It isn't just her who needs to detach from the situation. Your brother does too. He has become a part of the cycle and is now playing a role. Until he stops doing that she won't stop running to him. That's your real problem here - your brother. And I bet as much as she always says she's going to leave but never does, your brother always says he's going to stop getting involved again but never does. I'm right, aren't I?

He should send her a link to a DV charity and say he thinks she should contact them in future with concerns as he isn’t an expert and his advice doesn’t seem to be helping. It’s fine for him to be honest on the toll it’s taking on him.

Yes you are. I’m afraid he’s stubborn and digging his heels in now that my SIL has spoken to him. He’s making my SIL feel bad for having an issue with him being so involved. He really can’t see anything other than the fact this other person needs help and that’s all that seems to matter.

Neither of us can understand why, if she’s left him, she’s still texting at all times of night.

With respect, this is why she needs professional help and not your brother. Because they would understand why she is still doing it.

A bit of personal insight, if it helps.

I grew up with mental and physical abuse. My dad was unpredictable and would 'go' without warning on a near daily basis. As a teenager, I would goad him and provoke him on occasion because sitting with the calm and the silence and not knowing if or when it was going to happen that day was unbearable. At least if I'd deliberately caused it, I was in control. Or that's how it felt at the time. I also knew that he felt bad afterwards sometimes and it also had to feel bad to him to be that angry and wound up. In my head, I was playing him at his own game. He made me feel bad; I made him feel bad. That was my power in the situation.

When I started dating, it was all I'd ever known. I felt safer with violent angry men than those who weren't because those who weren't felt false and like I was in a perpetual state of 'the calm before the storm' even when they weren't like that and the storm was never going to come. I was anxious all the time.

I provoked and goaded too. I dumped the ones who didn't react because the uncertainty was too much amd I just assumed they had no feelings for me at all. As bad as the violet ones were, I felt relief and it felt cathartic when it happened. Because I knew where I was in the cycle rather than feeling I was caught in limbo somewhere in the cycle.

That doesn't mean I liked it though and I would offload to people because i fel ppain and sadness and loneliness, and i also knew it wasnt right. But it was all I knew. It was the only relationship dynamic I knew.

I was in my 30s before I really understood that violence payed no part in any relationship and now I won't even date someone who raises their voice. But it took a long time and a lot of therapy to get to that point.

to use a metaphor. This woman isn't someone whose 'normal' was ever where yours and your family's is. So shes never going to get back to that. She's not even on the same playing field. She's playing a completely different sport on a completely different surface and with completely different set of rules and equipment. She knows how to play her sport - She's an expert at it. She doesn't even know the name of yours.

And, to add, there was nothing anyone welll meaning could have said that would have made any difference at that time. I wanted and needed their comfort and their reassurance that it wasn't right but I had no idea that it could be different. Or how to make it different. I was in survival mode not making things better mode. And it was still all I had ever known.

Thankyou for explaining this, It does sound like a very similar situation. Interesting to get some insight!

Then it sounds like he's so embedded that it's already too late I'm afraid. He needs to have his own light bulb moment of realisation with this unfortunately. Nothing anyone else does or says will make any difference until he sees it himself. The reality is he has now become a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

This women's behaviour shows a pattern of behaviour that she is likely completely unaware that she is doing. Normally victims of domestic violence have experienced it throughout their lives to the point where it feels "safe" because it is familiar. This is why victims are often attracted to attackers. It's completely unconscious.

You say she provokes and causes arguments, that will also be unconscious and something she has learned to do for whatever reason.

Your brother is now playing the role of the saviour. He cannot save her. She needs therapy to look at why she is drawn to these kinds of relationships. Without that insight she will continue down this road.

I would recommend that your brother writes himself a script and he simply repeats it. Perhaps something like:

"I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Do you need to number of the refuge centre again? Remember we talked about this before, I really think you should seek help from a professional as I don't have the experience to help you conquer this".

He needs to stop playing his role. He cannot save someone who is completely unaware of what they are doing.

YANBU about your brother and he needs to escalate to his manager and try and take a step back. He is not helping this woman.

YAB very U about saying she goads her partner. Unless you have experienced DV you cannot possibly know. It's a cycle and you know it's coming as you tread on more eggshells and so you may provoke the situation just to get it over and done with, towards the end I stuck up for myself because I was sick of being a victim of his abuse which obviously didn't the situation better but made me feel slightly more in control.

However, this woman is no wallflower, she perpetuates situations. Argues and ‘winds up’ her partner knowing how things will end.

if this is how you and he think - please know it is victim blaming nonsense.

You say that work HR have been hopeless. With respect they simply have far better boundaries. Their role involves dealing with employment matters. not extracting an employer from a lifetime of domestic violence which she seems unable to leave for long. They probably know nothing much about domestic violence either. HR are on the side of the employer that pays them and are not some all-purpose do-gooders for employees.

I also do think she has designs on your BIL. It's why she continues to call him despite supposedly leaving and being safe. I suspect she is a woman who goes from relationship to relationship as she is not confident on her own. At the very least she wants his attention to the detriment of your SIL.

Yeah, that's how blokes who want to have affairs with vulnerable women start.

I also do think she has designs on your BIL. It's why she continues to call him despite supposedly leaving and being safe. I suspect she is a woman who goes from relationship to relationship as she is not confident on her own. At the very least she wants his attention to the detriment of your SIL

I also think this is a very valid point.

During the really bad times, I developed crushes on married men especially ones who were kind to me.

I didn't know how to be in a relationship with men like that but I also felt attracted to their kindness and safety.

The fact they were married made them feel safe to me because it was a barrier to being involved with then. I wouldn't have ever had an affair but, when I look back, I did do things that would have crossed boundaries (although I didn't realise it at the time).

As someone else said, none of this is conscious decision making. It's the result of having been seriously fucked up and having completely distorted world view that feels normal at the time.

Your brother is a fool, though, if he doesn't protect himself and his marriage and, ultimately, that is what she needs him to do too.

The behaviours can be real even if the motivation is not understood.

At least one other poster and I have explained why it happens.

Disagree and explain by all means but shutting it down as 'victim blaming nonsense' stops people from talking and understanding. It took someone explaining it to me for me to understand why I did it and ultimately change it. If they hadn't recognised it, for fear of 'victim blaming', I might never have had that understanding.

It also explains why, however well meaning, most people just don't have the skills or understanding to support someone who is very much caught up in this.

Brefugee

My last paragraph was a general comment and not aimed you.

Agree he is getting too involved with a vulnerable employee. It could easily backfire or they become too attached and dependant on him. Tell him to refer her hr for support and he may need to repeat his referral whenever she raises issues to him again.

Your brother sounds like a wonderful man.

It seems to me like this woman is not ready or willing to leave. She just wants someone to talk to.

And people will only leave when ready.

So I recommend that your brother is a good friend and listens to her but doesn't start getting officials etc involved as she can do that when she is ready. I also recommend your brother tells her he will listen but she must stop winding her partner up (this is no excuse for DV but it's not fair your brother is giving him time to her but she's not helping herself). When they talk he says at the start I have 20 minutes then need to go or such and when he gets off the phone he puts it out of his mind.

Victims of DV deserve to have someone to talk to but your brother also deserves to have a calm home life and not to have his relationship impacted negatively by others

If this approach still doesn't work then your brother has to walk away completely from the situation and block her number etc.

Good luck.

I've just seen he's her manager. He needs to respect boundaries between personal and professional. I think a manager should step away from this. Different if he were a colleague on the same level.

He's now got himself in so deep that it's affecting his own life and marriage, he's at risk of his own wife leaving. Unless he steps right back, blocks her then this won't stop, she has become dependent on him and he's as bad for continuing the drama.

This is a hard one for me as I've been in this situation. My boyfriend just wanted to help her, I think she had feelings for him and wanted a white knight but liked the drama she half caused.

It broke our relationship even though beforehand it had been really amazing, but I couldn't deal with his lack of time and felt he was drifting too far away. I spoke on it many times but she would just push harder for attention. I left him and 7 months later he finally blocked her as apparently it was affecting his work due to lack of sleep etc. he wanted me back but I never went back as I just couldn't have those bad memories of not being his priority

You said "HR have been useless" and implied that's why she's still contacting your brother and why he's still responding. Is that he feels that haven't supported him enough or that he feels they haven't done enough for her?

I ask because it's also possible that HR have offered her appropriate support but have drawn boundaries on how that works - so for example no calling the HR person at night or weekends. I work in HR and whilst I'll be supportive and helpful, using all the resources available to me, I simply can't have staff members contacting me outside of ours unless its a true emergency and I am the only appropriate option (and assuming not a police/ambulance type matter).

For example I will respond to a message about a staff member being injured on duty or the office building is burning down, but its clear I am not there for personal issues or just as a 'listening ear'. I am not a counsellor or a medical professional - I can't help people in distress any more than any other layperson. I've dealt with staff members with serious mental health conditions be sectioned, threaten suicide and self harm for example. I do what I can, advise on what help company can provide, emergency referrals to Occ Health or EAP services, signpost to appropriate organisations for help, called acute MH services, contacted next of kin, etc but I'm simply not the person to be handling that outside of work. Otherwise it would burn me out in the same way your brother is being affected.

So he needs to go back to HR if he needs more help and he must step away from responding to this woman outside of working hours.