I genuinely want pro-VAT people to answer these two questions

[Seenandheard]

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places? (Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

Yes or no to both points, please.

I do not want reams of uninformed angry opinions. I don't want this to turn into a multi page thread/bun fight. I just want to understand whether people realise these two points, really, truly understand them. Because it seems to me that there is a mentality of "they're getting a tax break" (WRONG) or "they're taking something away from my child" (WRONG) or "they can afford it so they can spread their wealth a bit" (I'm not going into the fact that my family spend more on taxes than Nordic countries, who have a far, far higher standard of living. We give so much, get almost nothing in return- but apparently we need to give more. More. More.)

I think my deep rooted anger here is to do with people's attitudes and uninformed opinions more than the policy itself. I need to know if people are aware of the facts.

'Our monkey, our choice'. But we are expecting private school parents to pay to improve 'our monkeys' schooling. Not so much our monkey our choice then is it!

People have explained time and time again that it's not illegal tax dodging, education is exempt from VAT. When you don't pay VAT on your child's shoes, you aren't a tax dodger, you are exempt.

How many of the people here who object to private school can afford to send their children to it and choose not to? It'd be interesting to see.

Why do you think that? They’ve had less than three weeks.

I can just about afford it for 1 child and chose not to. But I don't object to private schools.

Didn't you post this exact thread a few weeks ago? Same wording etc...copy and paste?

I don't object to private schools per se.

I do object to the post after post after post after post on here about how applying VAT to private school fees is going to bring about the end of civilisation as we know it. And/or that the only reason the government's doing it is because of envy. Or "jealousy", as some people have (wrongly) put it.

But there are threads moaning 'why is the private school VAT scheme not already up and running yet', so surely I can moan that this promise isn't up and running yet 😉.

I think the fact that there has been very little publicity about it, and there is no concrete indication about how it will be staffed or funded, makes me a bit sceptical. But hopefully I will be proved wrong. It would definitely help many families at our school far far more than the addition of 1 'sharp elbowed' private school parent that we are being promised as the saviour that will radically change state schools, or the extra few pounds in the school budget that we may or may not see from this policy.

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places?

YES

(Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

NO (don't care)

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

YES

Do you mean object to private schooling, or object to tax breaks on private schooling?

If it's the latter then I would fall into that category.

But not everyone does, that's the point that the poster was making. I have a friend who will not give the £10 a month requested donation to her DC's school. She can afford it but she doesn't see why she should pay it. My DC's school also requests £10 per month but I pay £20 per month because I want to cover the cost for a child whose parents genuinely cannot afford it. The problem is that there are people who can pay but don't.

Academys are businesses

I did.i sent .y kids to a grammar school with excellent facilities and better results than the independents in te County
The only parents who don't ae those with kids too thick to get in

This thread is full of ignorant, jealous, misguided numpties

But are you on all the year groups whatts app groups or the playground chats? Or are you a teacher? I'm guessing the 2nd if you think no parent is moaning about these things. As head of PTA I'm on every class what's app group, and as a parent governor I get a lot of feedback and many parents absolutely resent paying for things they think should be free. The school will get 'I'm so sorry I can't afford this' and the parents will get ' they flipping asked me for money again, it's ridiculous'. And of you are a teacher who is also a parent, other parents will naturally be more guarded what they say to you. My friend is a teacher at our school (and a parent) and she is absolutely shocked by some of the things that the parents say.

Of course they will be a core of very supportive parents, we have that too, but we also have a number who are quite resentful of anything being expected of them

Oh give up! Why is it always 'jealousy'?

Is that the best you can do.

What else is it when you resent others for being able to reach higher?

Nope, I know several who got into our local girls grammar and declined it to attend our local comprehensive. Nothing to do with being too 'thick'. And anyway, getting into grammar school is as much about who can afford the best tutors as the child's level of intelligence. I also got into and declined to attend a selective school. Not everyone who can attend a private school will, not everyone who can attend a grammar school will.

1). Yes. But the sector is not going to collapse. Honestly.
2) I see it as the government is not giving a tax break to private education. Why should people who can afford it get a massive tax break?

anyway, the reality is whatever mumsnetters fret about over the next few months the vast majority of voted for it.

Let’s get the energy in making the state sector fit for purpose for everyone.

Interesting that you are happy to accept you are ignorant and misguided!
It's being called out as jealous that really gets your goat.
I'd rather spend £20,000 per year on other things but I made a baby and I want her to have a better schooling experience than i did, where she wont be sexually assaulted in junior school, or have the shit kicked out of her and introduced to smoking and drugs in secondary. Money well spent and oh look, i'm not asking for any hand outs from the government whatsoever

I mean object to private schooling (aside from the tax issue) even though they could afford to send their children.

People are deluded if they genuinely think that there is enough state capacity to cover pupils leaving the independent sector. The DfE have said that the drop in the state pupil population in coming years won't be as large as predicted.

In the city where I have a DC in private school, a recent FOI request confirms that there are no places in year 5 in any state primary and only one primary out of 30 has capacity in year 6. The FOI request didn't cover other primary years but given the number of new homes that have and continue to be built in the city, it's not likely to be different in other years.

@stonedaisy It is perfectly possible to think private education is wrong for political and philosophical reasons. Only those with an entirely self centred approach to life find this hard to grasp. Very many private school supporters find this easy to grasp even if they don't agree. HTH.

Lol.. i object to bookies on the high street. I'm not a fan of boxing clubs or muscle gyms.. I have no interest in archery, life drawing classes or tattoo parlours but GUESS WHAT? They are business offering a service to those that want it and WHO AM I to say i object to their existence.
Get over yourself and your backward thinking opinions

Or not as the case may be

Possible but ignorant