To wonder if a lot of the Just Stop Oil protesters are not very nice people on a personal level

[HazelSchmazel]

There are a few Just Stop Oil threads around and I've noticed that a couple of posters have stated that the protesters are not very nice people.

Which got me thinking .....

A few years ago, I was in a horrible relationship with a rather unpleasant guy - a selfish, alcoholic, abusive cheater, who treated me like dirt and ended up stealing a considerable amount of money from me. Despite being a daily meat eater, regularly flying, driving a gas guzzler, having children etc. he would regularly pontificate on saving the environment (and would castigate me on environmental grounds for having a cat - even though I'm a childless vegetarian, who never flies!). Needless to say, the whole experience made me very unhappy.

Fast forward to the present, and I gather that he is now a very active Just Stop Oil protester.

Now, I'm bracing myself to be shot down in flames, as I appreciate that of course, it's unreasonable to judge an entire movement based on one bad apple.

But could it be the case, that there is something about JSO that attracts these nasty characters? Just wondering ......

Where did I say they shouldn't? They should be treated under law the same way as other protesters not as a special case.

I meant the company executives and politicians you referred to.

That doesn't contradict my statement.

I also wasn't talking about "deliberate harm". Most people who are uncomfortable to be around, for whatever reason, are not doing it deliberately

How many people in ambulances have the Tories killed by cutting health services, and were their intentions good? This thread is just another case of little people hating on the little people. I'm not going to engage further on this thread because it won't go anywhere positive.

Stop Godwin-ing everything.

All you are doing is countering everything with 'but other people do worse things'.

I know. But they're not going to be in any meaningful way. JSO have been specifically targeted with harsher sentences and changes in the instructions to courts, that's not equality of justice.

My local city has a core group of 'rent-an-anarchist' types who are front and centre at any protest. The same ones who were with Occupy years ago are now blocking highways with Extinction Rebellion and burning flags with Free Palestine. I'm not sure how strongly they feel about any of these issues, or if they are just career protesters. Either way, they are a very unpleasant bunch to deal with, certainly not the retired vicar or idealistic 6th former concerned about climate change types you see in the news.

I think JSO are just the first to be hit because they have been so active. Essentially, there are too many interest groups causing too much public disruption, with the police previously hamstrung. Changes were needed to allow civil society to operate unimpeded by disruption. If JSO or any other group want to find non-disruptive ways of raising awareness in the future then they are free to do so.

All people who are repeat offenders and who commit crimes whilst on bail will be get stronger sentences, especially if they are escalating in the severity of the crimes they commit.

This is what happened to JSO.

This.
Is this the 'ah well, only 1' that you're talking about @Hatfullofwillow ? The 2 woman who died while ambulances were stuck and battling through traffic caused by these selfish twats?

Many, many environmental and feminist activists are among some of the soundest people I've met, kind, loving, give a shit about other people, great company, want to change the world for the better.

However, certainly not all of them...

Activism attracts narcissists as it is an easy way to get a platform and adoring "fans".

Activist movements are usually so desperate for people who will actually show up and get involved in actions reliably, that it's easy to make a name for yourself. It's ripe for exploitation by narcissists and grifters who are in it for reasons other / as well as the cause.

See Kelly Jay Keen Minshall and Dr Jessica Taylor, for two examples in feminist circles. I know a lot of people will be unhappy to hear that, but I stand by it. Both exploit the movement for personal gain.

Yes, that's the case I was referring to. Unfortunately I can't name the individuals amongst the 300,000 excess deaths attributed to Tory austerity you seem to dismiss, inflicted by a government voted in by selfish twats.

@Hatfullofwillow I wouldn't engage, you won't change anyone's mind, sadly.

Not with the 'arguments' justifying their behaviour due to the actions of a Tory government presented by you both, no, you won't.

I can name a few sadly who died because of Tory austerity but that’s a totally different situation from JSO protestors directly causing someone’s death.

Its possible to be outraged by two things and one doesn’t excuse the other.

I'm completely sick of those comparing JSO to women's suffrage. Suffrage is the demand for the right to vote - for one's opinions and beliefs to be considered EQUAL to other citizens. The only possible method they had was protest as they had no vote!

JSO are trying to bully fellow citizens in to prioritising what they personally believe is most important. Its members have (presumably) just used their vote to support whatever political party is prepared to prioritise the environment. They're just pissed off that other citizens disagree and think other things matter more. Their stunts are a way to punish normal people for having other priorities.

The self-righteous dickheads in JSO are not at all comparable to those who fight for basic civil rights (such as the right to vote).

You won’t answer the question. Is it ok for me to block an Ambulance based on the fact that the Tories are shit?

Does that absolve me or any responsibility because I am only block one or a few? Or is that shitty behaviour?

What we're talking about is whether the jail sentences are proportionate. When no politician has ever been jailed for policies that have directly killed thousands of people, with the sole intention of putting money into the pockets of corrupt businesses, I can say with confidence that the jail sentences for JSO protesters are disproportionate. It's ok if you don't agree, but don't denegrate people who can see these jail sentences for what they are - a slow erosion of the right to protest.

What you describe is a massive hypocrite who liked to grasp at any stick with which to beat you and others, while feeling self-righteous. Someone like that isn't going to be well-liked by other activists either.

I disagree. That describes most JSO protestors.

I have a lot of sympathy with the idea that the Climate Crisis is so big and so urgent that we just can’t carry on with our lives as normal, and we need to be shocked out of the idea that we can.

But obviously, I don’t want anyone to be forced to miss funerals and urgent cancer appointments etc. I don’t know what the solution is.

You’re not wrong. A lot of them seem to come from a place of privilege too, they couldn’t even comprehend how Joe bloggs needs to commute to his zero hour contract job to feed his family, and don’t get me started on holding up emergency services while they glue themselves to the asphalt.

Travel by train?

Are you under the impression that one ambulance and crew serve London?

What a super idea. Because everyone has access to nearby train stations and what a wonderful infrastructure the railways are. Not to mention how cheap train travel is too. (Note I’m being sarcastic).

Basically fuck the disabled and the poor.

owning and running a car is hardly cheap

Probably cheaper than the current train prices.

Are you doing anything about improving train and bus travel? Campaigning to improve this in rural areas? Or do you as I suspect just try and take the moral high ground and lecture others without actually putting in any work yourself?