To wonder if a lot of the Just Stop Oil protesters are not very nice people on a personal level

[HazelSchmazel]

There are a few Just Stop Oil threads around and I've noticed that a couple of posters have stated that the protesters are not very nice people.

Which got me thinking .....

A few years ago, I was in a horrible relationship with a rather unpleasant guy - a selfish, alcoholic, abusive cheater, who treated me like dirt and ended up stealing a considerable amount of money from me. Despite being a daily meat eater, regularly flying, driving a gas guzzler, having children etc. he would regularly pontificate on saving the environment (and would castigate me on environmental grounds for having a cat - even though I'm a childless vegetarian, who never flies!). Needless to say, the whole experience made me very unhappy.

Fast forward to the present, and I gather that he is now a very active Just Stop Oil protester.

Now, I'm bracing myself to be shot down in flames, as I appreciate that of course, it's unreasonable to judge an entire movement based on one bad apple.

But could it be the case, that there is something about JSO that attracts these nasty characters? Just wondering ......

I don’t know how anyone on a low income could afford a car! I’ve never had one. Not that I think trains are good value in the UK.

Trains are too expensive for a lot of people, many people live in areas with no or poor train coverage. They’re often not usable for those with disabilties.

For my mum to get the train to hospital it would mean a 5-6 minute walk to the bus station, a 34 minute bus to the nearest train station, a 40 minute train, a 4ish minute walk and then a 20 minute bus journey. To drive to the hospital from her house its 40 minutes. At the moment she is supporting her 93 year old neighbour with regular appointments, her neighbour can walk the five minutes to the bus, how do you expect them to navigate such a long journey on public transport?

I don’t know anyone on a low income who doesn’t own a car, because they cannot afford public transport. When did you last have to buy a train ticket for two adults and two children for a day out? Prices are far far too high.

Because I see the role of big oil as a symptom of systemic failures with our economic system. There's only so far governments will ever move on policy when there's no will to govern in the best interests of the population or planet, especially when that would involve co-operation on an International scale.

That doesn't mean I want JSO protesters treated differently to other protesters whatever the level of sympathy or not I have with their cause or methods.

Completely not answering my question.

The ignorance in this is staggering.

Yeah, it does.

No, you didn’t. I asked if you would sacrifice your own life.

Its a lot cheaper for a family, or indeed a couple, to travel by car than train.

Lots of the things people want to get to are not near train stations.

Lots of rural populations are not near train stations.

Lots of people live in locations where you need a car to get anywhere.

Lots of people don't have the additional time that public transport takes, especially when it is so unreliable ( bus and train cancellations are the norm where I live).oeple

Your niche urban elite world is really showing.

Your niche urban elite world is really showing.

A common theme.

They are not being treated differently to other protestors.

Nor are they being treated any differently to repeat offenders who keep committing crimes, who are escalating in their offences and who commit those escalating offences whilst on bail.

All criminals could expect to get increasing severity of offences in those cases.

This narrative that JSO are being 'treated differently' is a fiction.

I don't know if anyone knows, but one of the protesters just jailed for four years was not actually involved in any road blockades or disruption. They just had a zoom call to discuss it. Now in a high security prison for four years. Does anyone actually think this is ok?

Which one?

You do realise that organising massive disruption, over and over and intending to do it again is an offence?

Are you really bragging that one of these sent people climbing a gantry but wouldn’t do it themselves? Asked people to put themselves in harms way, encouraged it? But wouldn’t do it themselves? That doesn’t strike you as a dangerous person.

i’ll ask again. Given working at heigh is one of the countries most dangerous jobs, who would have taken responsibility if someone fell off that gantry and died? The person who convinced them it was safe after 8 hour climbing course? The person who told them it was their duty to it? Who convinced them it made them a hero?

So people who organise criminal events should not go to jail? Is that your argument?

So when the IRA, or ISIS leaders, plan terrorism, but foot soldiers carry it out, the organiser and planners should not go to jail?

When criminal bosses organise crime, but their foot soldiers carry out the crime, the criminal bosses should not go to jail?

Is that your argument?

Because its completely bogus.

And elitist. Basically you want the foot soldiers jailed, but not the bosses at the top.

If I thought it would save humanity from catastrophe, absolutely. (That might be because I've only got a maximum of 7 years of it left) But as I've told you I don't think JSO , even if they shifted government policy, would make a dent. I still support their right to be treated the same as comparable protesters & their vilification, especially when the real disruption of our daily lives; ambulances being delayed, terrible transport infrastructure is by the order of many thousands the fault of people voting Tory.

Tory voters were quite comfortable sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives, disproportionately those of the poor, disabled and ethnic minorities and even having seen it, millions did it again this time.

What makes you think we haven’t? I don’t have a car and either walk into town or get the bus (£2 each way). I’ve massively cut down on flying - I’ve only flown once in the past eight years. I’m getting my home insulated to save on energy. I’m buying more locally-sourced food and fewer plastic items. I’m not perfect but I have made changes.

Tory voters were quite comfortable sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives, disproportionately those of the poor, disabled and ethnic minorities and even having seen it, millions did it again this time.
That is a false equivalence. The pensioners driving from their Devon country houses to blockade roads in London also disproportionately affected the poor, disabled and ethnic minorities because they were the ones most likely to suffer consequences from not being able to get to work/hospital appointments/schools etc.

Those convicted were repeat offenders who kept committing crimes, who were escalating in their offences and who commited those escalating offences whilst on bail. They planned to cause much wider disruption than they actually did, and were only prevented from doing so by an uncover reporter tipping off the police. They still caused massive disruption.

What comparable protestors have they been treated unfairly to, in comparison?

just stop oil is about stoping oil which in turn will save lives. 40000 premature deaths each year, they have a right to civil liberties and I believe the right to have a full life is as important as the right to vote

If you were to discuss killing someone but didn’t - should you be jailed?

I’m not talking about little changes like recycling your rubbish and taking less flights.

I’m talking giving your life, dying for the cause. JSO supporters/defenders think it’s ok to stop ambulances and potentially kill others via their actions, why don’t you and they start with yourself? That would make a real statement.

Discussing and instructing/engineering are different.

Absolutely. That has just happened to the person who was planning to kidnap Holly Willoughby.

Its happened to people who try to procure contract killers even though they fail. If happens to people who try to groom children online, even though they fail.

If the intention to actually commit the crime is there, (as it clearly was in the case of JSO as the crime took place), then yes, you would absolutely be prosecuted and sent to jail if found guilty.

Police work operates at its best in this preventative function.

I'm somewhat taken aback at your question. I'm not sure what side you are on. Did you ask that question to make the point that of course people righty go to jail for planning offences?

Or do you seriously think that the police should sit back and wait till someone has actually been murdered/ kidnapped/raped before stepping in? Do you honestly think that's the better society to live in? Because that seems nonsensical, and immoral, to me.

I don’t think anyone should die for the cause, but if we do nothing, thousands of people will die, especially those in impoverished regions such as Bangladesh and central Africa who have done little to cause the climate crisis.

What have you done, @AccidentallyWesAnderson ?
Sniping from the sidelines doesn’t count.

As much as I can without disrupting or potentially ending anyone else's lives.