AIBU - Having to ask permission to go out at 17 nearly 18 going to move out for university in less than 2 months

[FairTaupeSwan]

Hello Mumsnet,
Me (DD 17) & my mum (DM) ended up in an argument over the way I asked my mum permission for me to go to a grassroots live music venue (London, 16+ event) by myself. She said that I hide everything from her and that everything is a mystery. I asked her by saying ‘There’s this music thing in XYZ, on a tuesday at 7 that I want to go to. is that okay?’ This ended up in a long argument of me asking why I still have to go and ask permission for simple everyday things such as going out (we live close to central) during the day just to buy food in Central or to Westfield etc when I am nearly 18 (a argument once happened because I simply told her I was going out to XYZ area to buy food) why I am not close to her, why am I never allowed to go out until late when all of my friends and people I know are already 18 (2005 born, have a late August 2006 birthday), are able to go out until 1am clubbing in central London, without permission at all. My family is religious too so I guess this is also a factor (drinking & smoking at live music venues happen a lot) as this argument ended up being why I don’t pray (I said I’m not religious, and I have my own thoughts & values, my DM claimed this was bs) AIBU to think I should not need to ask permission in ‘Please can I go to….’ because I am nearly 18 with a late birthday and off to university in less than 2 months?

I'm friends with someone like your mum - she has a daughter similar age to you. From my eyes (grew up in the UK), given lots of freedoms as a teenager, she seems strict. I've spoken to her about it and it's a lot to do with her own upbringing. She grew up in a cultural and religious environment which restricted girls, in particular. To her, she's giving her daughter a lot of freedom compared to her own upbringing. She also carries a lot of fear, probably ingrained from when she was younger.

I can't speak for your mum, but my friend definitely loves her daughter, is struggling to adjust to her growing up and the differences between the UK and 'back home'. She is adjusting but it's taking time.

I'm religious. DD enjoys the social aspects of my religion, but she doesn't believe. That makes me sad, but it's her choice.

DD turned 18 2 weeks ago. She's off to uni in September. She never asks permission to go out now. She will always tell me she's going out and when she expects to be home.

I think your mum is finding the adjustment hard. September isn't that long away, so she'll have to make the break then if she doesn't before. I don't think any words will help her understand your perspective before you go to uni I'm being honest.

Keep trying to be respectful, if you can, and try to not let her restrict what you want to do.

All the best.

I don't think you should have to ask permission. I encouraged my late teens to let me know where they were and who they were with and what time they planned to come home, for their own safety. And if they wanted to go somewhere all day to check first with us that there were no clashes with planned family activities like visiting grandparents or tickets to theatre. But otherwise, they made their own plans, including holidays with mates, school and sport trips away and sleepovers and late night parties. I barely saw DS1 over the summer from when he was about 16.

I'd want my DC to tell me they are going to the shops, not just slip out of te house, I might say, 'Not now – dinner is ready in 5 mins,' or,'Hang on, you promised to tidy your room this morning and it is still a bombsite.' But I'd never prevent them.

It's incredibly important that you learn how to be self-reliant and autonomous and that you feel capable and safe out and about in the world, making your own decisions.

Your mum's reactions may come from a place of fear, of wanting to protect you - it's common with summer borns, as when you start school you are literally 20-25% less life experience than autumn borns and it really shows. You may need to gently reassure her that you have caught up. We parents can be very slow to realise our precious delicate summer-born children or premie babies are actually young adults.

But it might be authoritarian behaviour from religious and cultural beliefs. Or narcissism - not aware that you are a separate human being with needs and choices of your own that are not a perpetual satellite to her. You can't do much about either of those except count the days until uni, and where and when you can, take the chance to be independent and make you own decisions.

DD 17 has just come back from seeing Metallica in Madrid, your Mother would probably despair of my parenting.

I understand your frustration, a lot us have been there. What your mother doesn’t realise is that the very thing she’s scared of (losing you to adulthood) is what she’s actually pushing you closer to. My advice, suck it up, in over 8 weeks you’ll be long gone.

My 18yo always says "is it ok if I...", but it's more checking we don't already have plans (or asking for a lift 😂). I tell her she doesn't need my permission and it's good for her to do things!

I'm very jealous of your dd!

No you shouldn’t.

But suck it up for a few more months - you’ll be at university and can do as you please - and if you wish never go back.

I can only tell you how I did it with my two pre mobile days.
If any of us ( included me) went out we said I’m going to X, I’ll be back by Z O’clock. Rule was if you were going to be more than 10 minutes late you phoned ( had to find a pay phone or use friend’s landline to call our landline — oh the dinosaur days!)
DD1 broke the rule once and had my car with my permission so I was v worried. Riot Act read.
Your mum sounds upset you’re about to fly the nest but parents have to realise at 18 their kids become adults and you’ve done your job, from now on you’re a support act.
Good luck with your results and enjoy Uni.

OP, my parents were like that. Drove me nuts. Their views were based on the world being 'full of evil' and thinking I lacked the ability to spot a predatory male at 20 paces. They didn't know I'd been fending off advances since I was 11, and would have disbelieved/blamed me if they had known.

The only answer is to move out and get away from them. Then you become independent and can live as you please. Good luck with the results. Enjoy Manchester. xx

At 17, my parents went looking for me when I’d gone to the theatre with a friend. Parents worry, but with your mum, it sounds more like a control thing. Given you’re off to uni in autumn, they need to relax the grip a little.

I have a 16 and 18 year old. They don’t ask permission but they do let me know. It’s more, ‘Mum, I’m going to Tom’s party tomorrow night. Can you give me a lift?’ Or ‘Mum, we’re going to see xxx band in London, can you drop us to the station?’ That said, I can’t imagine them doing anything I’d say no to unless there were logistical reasons. We have a shared calendar and usually put stuff in there.

Dd is 17. I expect to know where she is, how she's getting there and back. I like a phonecall to know she's arrived and when she's leaving to come home.
From a mum point of view it's very difficult to look after and love someone for 17 years and then just let them go off who knows where with god knows who. I'm used to holding dds hand and I can't physically do that any more, I just have to be there. We're still learning how this works. Dd is an apprentice, earning her own money, an adult in her own right. She goes off alone to college 3hrs away every other month.
But I'm still her mum. And I'll always worry.
My parents would never have let me have the freedom dd has. They sound like your parents. Now I have a 17yr old I see they were just trying to keep me safe. But our kids have to make their own mistakes to grow and learn.
Good luck with uni, it was the making of me and is an amazing time of your life!

I think it could be possible that, as well as the cultural and religious side of things - which is definitely not to be underestimated- your mum could be truly concerned about your safety if going out alone. There have been so many horrendous things happening recently and it is only human nature to be frightened by that.

“Mum, please can we have a nice calm conversation about the dynamics of our relationship now that I’m nearly 18, and will be moving out in a couple of months? I love you, and want to get on with you, but I’m a young adult now, so would like to work out how to navigate this stage of our lives together so that everyone is comfortable and feels respected and cared for”.
This is almost verbatim of how my DS approached this topic at the beginning of the COVID lockdown. I quickly realised that both he and my (younger) DD were indeed reaching adulthood, so needed concessions from me. However, I also needed concessions from them! By talking through all our expectations and discussion of which were reasonable, we changed the family dynamic and I understood where I had been overlooking their ages and what needed to change from me, too.
It has made living together under one roof so much easier - especially as neither of my DC can afford to move out!

My mother was very similar to this- controlling, very religious etc. I remember the same battles when I was 17. It's great that you're going away to uni; I'm sure you'll have a great time. Some things to think about:

• Are you not used to drinking? Be really careful when you go to uni. Young people who have been sheltered at home and aren't used to drinking are often the ones who get absolutely paralytic and end up choking on their own vomit or putting themselves in danger. Your new uni friends will be very new: don't trust them to look after you. Stick to four drinks max at the beginning- don't go crazy.
• Consider seeing a therapist when you get to uni. It's much easier to access mental health support within the university system than out in the world. People with repressive parents sometimes miss out on the rebellion stage or end up being really indecisive/lacking confidence to make their own decisions.
• Uni summers are really long and three years actually goes really fast. You don't want to be moving home for long summer holidays or moving back home for years after uni (which is what a lot of students do) because you will find it even harder in that environment having moved away, and your mother isn't going to change. You need to be proactive and make a plan. Find things to do in the long summer holidays (camp America, internships, working for the uni on access programmes etc).

And start working towards a good graduate job when you leave uni so you don't end up bouncing back home. Do internships in the holidays. Start getting your CV ready. You want to be in a position to leave uni, be financially independent and move into a houseshare with friends. Otherwise you are going to spend half your twenties miserable.

I live in central London and have been through this as I have 2 DDs - now 21 and 20. Eldest is a summer born so I understand your pain....

I think that the tower block is an issue so I'll address that in a minute but in the meantime this is what I did.

1 House rule everyone says they are going out and when they expect to come back - applies to me/DH/visitors etc. I see it as a common courtesy. We keep an emergency taxi fund in a drawer in the hall so that if necessary you can hail a cab and know you can pay for it even if you are mugged. If plans change you message on the family whatsapp with an update.
2 Once DC were at secondary they could go out to meet up with friends after school on a Friday and at the weekend if they told me where they were and they were expected home by 6.30pm
3 Once DC were 16 I was pretty flexible provided I knew where they were, who they were with and how they were going to get home safely before their curfew (usually 11pm). They knew how to tell a taxi driver that they needed to pop indoors to get the emergency money if they did and they had an uber app.
4 At 18 same rules apply to them as everyone else in the house - see 1 above.

The tower block issue is one I sympathise with though - its not something I've had to worry about. Can you agree that you will carry an alarm and will let them know when you have arrived outside so that they can tell very quickly if someone has delayed you on your way up.

Having said all that, if your father is kind enough to pick you up I'd be grateful - you get to go and enjoy the festival and don't have to worry about how you et back afterwards.

This ^

This is what my deeply religious mother ended up doing with me.