Arguement about disciplining toddlers

[Sunshining20]

I have a 2 year old and 4 year old.

Wanted to try the gentle (ish) parenting but it hasn't worked for us our children are not great at listening and quite demanding.

We now do time outs alone in bedroom or on the stairs if they shout, throw something or defiantly don't listen.

I'm really struggling as my DH feels like we are on one hand quite permissive but then we hear other parents say they never shout at their dc, never label any behaviour naughty or give time outs. So what are they doing then? How are their children disciplined? And well behaved and ours not sometimes?

Anyway DH says that time outs aren't controversial or wrong and we should stick to them. Finding this new era of parenting in terms of discipline really hard to navigate.

Aibu? Any tips?

We used the naughty step from age three with a single warning. It worked well for us. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, time outs in bedrooms have a knock on effect with bedtime routines as bedrooms then become a place associated with punishment.
Also consistency, clear boundaries and mean what you say. Don't say "that policeman will tell you off" for example or "Santa doesn't visit naughty children" and don't have ever changing standards of behaviour. Appropriate punishments too, a four year doesn't understand a consequence that lasts beyond a few hours.

On their own in their room is not great, they're very small still.

I didn't use time outs but did go the Janet Lansbury way of blocking/not allowing behaviours, removing child if necessary etc. She's very goof and has loads of scenarios and scripts online.

I should add, the naughty step was minutes equal to age, so four year old is a four minute time out.

Just do what feels right and don't compare too much.

Entirely permissive parenting where kids are never told no = bad. Entirely authoritarian parenting where kids aren't allowed to make any choices or mistakes = bad. Most parenting is somewhere in-between.

There's no magic formula, kids can be a pain in the arse but you need to be consistent, show them love, communicate calmly about when you don't like what they're doing and most of all, model good behaviour (how you and DH resolve disagreements, not shouting and throwing things around etc)

Kids are so different, so are parents - it's highly individual. There isn't any one approach that works.

We sat them on the step for a minute to indicate they needed to calm down or mark out when they'd gone over the line. Other consequence/sanctions were things like not choosing what to watch on TV (mummy chooses ha hah) or putting a favourite toy up on a high shelf for a minute.

Mainly you just can't get through it without some fireworks, take it in your stride and be nice to them.

Stick with naughty step as they are both an age where immediate action is better than prolonged response. Gentle parenting doesn't work for everyone, my sister was very for it until her second child came along and it absolutely was not working. I don't think there is anything wrong either in a child hearing no or a negative response to something they are doing. I think it must be very confusing when they go to school or nursery

I wouldn't use their bedrooms as a place of punishment - it's likely to cause issues with bedtimes etc.

Young children struggle to control their emotions. Sometimes they have really big emotions, their brains do not work as an adults brain or have the understanding of reasoning, forethought and consequences.

Putting them in their room alone to deal with high emotions is NOT helping at all.
It shows that (some) emotions are bad and unacceptable (all emotions are acceptable , you just need the skills to handle them)

And that when they need you the most to help them work through and regulate, you are not there for them.

Gentle parenting is not about being easy and letting them get away with stuff. It's hard to move away from traditional methods. I KNOW I did stuff my DM did. I've retrained as a foster carer and have learnt so much that I wish I had known for my own DC.

I use the restorative approach. Everyone gets to talk about how they feel and how other DC (if involved) made them feel. We talk about how to stop it from happening again and set out expectations for behaviour in the future. I used to be Mrs Angry all the time and not only did it not work, but it made everyone feel like shit, including me. Now all 3 of my DC openly discuss with each other and me and there is little to zero arguing and no shouting at all.

They're your kids and you are their parents. There is no point in pretending to be different from how you are. If time outs works for you then you should do it. I dispute that it is damaging (although I will say I don't see the point at 2).

Nobody has a kid who is well behaved all the time, and parents who never get annoyed are either lying or have a nervous breakdown at some point from pretending everything's fine all the time. Loving and reasonably consistent. That's what you have to be. Model the behaviour you want and be clear about your expectations (to yourself as well as your kids! Not everyone cares about the same behaviours). That's what you have to do. How you go about any of that is absolutely nobody else's business.

There's a lot of misunderstanding about gentle parenting, you definitely say no when you GP and you definitely have firm boundaries

Ask yourself what is your child learning from a time out?

Why can't you sit with them?

I shout sometimes but more than anything it comes from a place of sometimes just not knowing how to handle my 3yos behaviour. Like she was hitting me this morning and I ended up shouting at her, like how else can I handle this to get her to stop. I have a mum friend who never shouts apparently, but then she uses food and screen time to placate her toddler, is that much better? None of us are perfect

I have a real thing about leaving my child upset and alone, I remember my mum doing this to me a lot, sending me to my room and isolating me from the family. It made me feel like I was a bad person and I STILL feel that way about myself.

I don't really like the naughty step so don't do that but do remove DD(4) from situations where she's unsafe/misbehaving etc, I quarantine toys that she's not using nicely until the next day (throwing is immediate/not being gentle enough with something is after a warning) - I'm very clear with boundaries, giving warnings and following through. She still pushes boundaries as that's how they learn but on the whole she is polite, thoughtful and generally nice to be around. I think consistency is key and focusing on what you want to achieve with consequences.

I also try to avoid shouting as it makes me feel horrible as well as her, but definitely deploy a firm voice and teacher look - and it generally works as it's backed up with me following through on what I'm saying.

Time outs never worked for us as DS refused to stay in them.

Up till around age 4 I used to put a toy on the shelf for 5 or 10 minutes if they repeatedly wouldn't do as asked.

Now (4 and 8) we have a points app. They earn points for listening the first time and other desired behaviors, lose them for not doing as asked, and can spend them on treats / screen time (within limits) or convert them into cash.

I've found natural consequences quite good. So of you throw a toy then the toy goes away or if your misbehaving during an activity then we tidy up , if you mess around getting ready for bed then we won't have time for stories. But you have to parent the child you have and figure out what works for them. My fella would loose his life if I put him on the naughty step

Used time out with all of ours as its a consequence and regulating emotions.

We did have a playpen that was toddler jail at one point lol.

Also have a positive reward system on place too.

I found 'the incredible years' book helpful. It's in audibook too. You can do it as parenting course but book stands alone well.

Do you mind naming the app? I want to try Joon but can't get it to load properly. 😩

Sorry - I forgot to add something (hopefully) useful for the OP. 😬 You have to parent the children you have - if what you are doing is giving you the outcomes you want, then that is all anyone needs to know
There's no one single way to do it - I parent each of my children differently according to their needs, let alone different families and their dynamics.

@DysmalRadius it's called Privilege Points.

It's free

It is important to remember that gentle parenting is NOT permissive parenting. It's perfectly acceptable to sit with a child away from the activity where they are not happy, and to give them time to think, or to help them to calm down. If old enough to empathise, chat about that. Why do you think that friend was upset? Do you think they were justified? How could you have responded? Or, let's just sit - I know you're angry and that's ok because you didn't get what you wanted. Reset...and try again.
I think sometimes people forget that children are small people and not small adults.
Good luck. It's the hardest thing to do.

I did 3 warnings then either time out if at home or leaving wherever we were and going straight home if we were out.

Didn't start any of this until she 3 though as a 2 year old can't understand or make that connection imo (maybe some can but it would've meant nothing to my eldest at 2!).

I now have a 2 year old again and if for example she pushes her big brother she has to say sorry and give a hug. I tell her x y and z isn't right etc. There's only so much I can do when her understanding isn't great.

Eldest is nearly 6 and has a marble reward jar for good behaviour and a chore chart so he completes his daily tasks. We still have the warning / time out thing going or if he's naughty he loses screen time or something else.

Far from perfect but they're great kids so it's working ok for now.

I do the bear hug. And hold until behaviour has improved! No shouting, no time outs, no isolation! Just basically bore them until they behave. Works pretty well as DC is low on patience

I never reward either. The reward is doing the task correctly

I personally think that time outs are wrong, and have been scientifically proven to be ineffective. They only create adults who are afraid of taking themselves out of situations because it was a punishment growing up. It also creates a fear of abandonment, and sends the message that you're not there for them in their most difficult moments.

Put yourself in their shoes: think back to a time when you got so angry with someone you lost control and went into a complete meltdown - were you thinking of the consequences in this moment? Did you accept the counter argument, or did you automatically reject any come-back? When people are in distress, the cortisol hormonal kicks in the "fight" mode in "fight or flight" and completely shuts down any critically thinking - this is an unfortunate fact of being human and nothing can change that. What we can do, is practice calming down so it becomes an automatic response - putting your child in a time out does not do this. All they are thinking in that moment is how angry they are and how right they are.

Think about what you want your children to do when they're stressed or upset as grown-ups, and start practicing now. I personally want my child to be able to take themselves out of difficult situations to calm down - so we have a sensory toy box which we put in a quiet area of the house, we go there together, calm down together then only once they're calm and receptive - we talk about how they were feeling, what they should've done instead of xyz, and we brainstorm ideas on they can resolve the situation.

I also want my child to do the right thing because they want to. Not because they were threatened or intimidated - which just creates sneaky kids, and adults with no morals.

Neither method is going to create results overnight. Your kids will often ignore you and push the boundaries - but see these moments as an opportunity to teach them the right way to do things. We only learn by making mistakes. But trust me, you'll watch your kids playing with other kids who do get put on time-outs and realise "holy s### I did not realise how compassionate my child is" - I had this realisation just the other day, after worrying about whether I was raising my kid right. The proof is in the pudding.

@DysmalRadius I really agree with you about different parenting strategies working for different kids.

2 and 4 is just really hard. Honestly we didn't have much 'discipline' at that age apart from naughty step for violence and extreme tantrums. We were too overwhelmed and so much chaos. At 3 and 5 we're now starting to really get on it properly. Luckily, we've generally got good kids so no harm done! With a 2 and 4 year old, I would be pleased you're all alive at the end of the day and bonus points for no adult crying!!!!

What is the name of the app?