Arguement about disciplining toddlers

[Sunshining20]

I have a 2 year old and 4 year old.

Wanted to try the gentle (ish) parenting but it hasn't worked for us our children are not great at listening and quite demanding.

We now do time outs alone in bedroom or on the stairs if they shout, throw something or defiantly don't listen.

I'm really struggling as my DH feels like we are on one hand quite permissive but then we hear other parents say they never shout at their dc, never label any behaviour naughty or give time outs. So what are they doing then? How are their children disciplined? And well behaved and ours not sometimes?

Anyway DH says that time outs aren't controversial or wrong and we should stick to them. Finding this new era of parenting in terms of discipline really hard to navigate.

Aibu? Any tips?

@PifandHercule

Privilege Points

This made me lol. It's a great theory and it's really lovely that it works for you but I can imagine the chaos in our house if I tried this.

I think it's so old fashioned and alienating for little children to make them sit alone. They don't have the emotional regulation to deal with it and it's ineffective. Parent don't punish. So maybe try time in, for example. You tell your child the behaviour wasn't acceptable and you sit and talk about it calmly with them.

Tbh with the two year old they are far too young to process even that though so I would simply say a firm no, distract and move on. Far far too young for punishments and the like!

Hi, I’ve got two children and one with extra struggles to manage his feelings! I really want them both to feel good about themselves and to understand that all the feelings are okay, it’s how we manage the feelings that matters. I’ve found it hard to get a good balance between being kind and boundaried. What really helped me is Dr Becky’s YouTube videos and podcasts. She is really thoughtful about setting boundaries without shame. The problem, she says, is that leaving a child in their room when they are overwhelmed doesn’t help them to learn to understand and manage their feelings. She really focuses on teaching kids the skills they need to manage feelings and problem-solve situations. It might not be for you, but thought I’d share in case it fits with how you would like to parent.
I knew I really wanted to parent differently to how I was parented, but I didn’t really have a model of how to do this, so that’s why it’s really helped me. Good luck - so much advice out there, it can be so confusing!

This is exactly the approach I have always taken, as far as possible. Combined with a restorative approach too - if you've made a mess, you have to tidy it up. If you've hit someone, you have to apologise and do something nice for them to make it up to them. And so on. Obviously the expectation differs by age - mine are 6 and not far off 3.

There are of course times where I can't really think/see a natural consequence and/or an obvious restorative response! Those are the hardest and the most likely to result in me losing my temper!

My kids definitely aren't angels and they're very different in personality so far too, so it's interesting to see how I may need to tweak things as they age, to take that into account. However on the whole eldest in particular usually gets glowing comments about their behaviour when we are out or if someone else takes them out, at school etc, so I hope that means we are doing something right. She saves most of her challenging behaviour for home for me and DH...! Little one I'm not so sure about as it's a bit young to tell yet I think. Certainly he can be challenging in all contexts sometimes but other times less so, I wouldn't say he's a particularly difficult toddler compared to others I've seen, nor would I say he is an easy/docile one.

By the way you said your kids aren't great at listening. That's the case for most 4 year olds, and ALL two year olds I've ever met. Are your expectations too high?

Just talk with them. We were very much go to your room/naughty step kind of parents . It was the thing in the 1990s.

Our daughter (child psychology degree, prior to that 5 years as a nursery worker) has sat her son down and talked/listened back with him since he was old enough to engage. Around 14 months? He’s 4 this weekend, incredibly articulate and knows that what he expresses is listened to. He behaves accordingly.

She’s right, we were wrong 😁

Love this post. It seems so rare that people look back and acknowledge what they might have done differently. I’m imagining your daughter now feels really supported by you in parenting in the way that feels right for her.

Hope so. I would defer to her on pretty much all parenting decisions.
He speaks for himself 😊

I found the ABC method useful when mine were that age. Not to be used in the heat of the moment but as a way of analysing what had happened during the day and what I could do differently in future. So B is the event or behaviour, C is the consequence or result and A is what triggered or led up to the negative event or behaviour.

Sometimes there was no obvious cause or trigger but often in hindsight I could see that my expectations were too high, child was hungry or tired, situation was overstimulating etc and then I could try and avoid the same thing happening again. I don't think discipline is a helpful framework for children of that age, it's a cliche but I do believe that all behaviour is communication and I tried to work out what they were trying to communicate.

His dad is pretty good, too 😊

I don’t really agree with time outs for children that are as young as 2 - I don’t think at that age they understand why they are sitting on a step.
We’ve mostly done natural consequences for our 2.5 year old. So if he throws a toy, he gets a warning, he does it again and the toy gets taken away. If he hits (which he never really does) we just say hands are for eating, playing, hugging etc and if he hits again we just move hands away, repeat and move on to something else.
We do not shout but use a firm voice if needed - we don’t want to teach him shouting and aggression is ok.
We have clear and consistent rules e.g holding hands when crossing roads, sitting when eating etc and they are non-negotiable. If he tried to cross road without hands we make him hold hands or pick him up - gentle doesn’t mean giving in.

So I manage the environment, if ds is struggling I come in with comfort/distraction before things escalate. I give warning and consequences. Usually a timeout which works well as it gives an opportunity to reset.

I don't understand why people think it's appropriate to hit or shout at children (although I understand people losing their wragg) I wouldn't should at a colleague or family so why would I shout at and attempt to intimidate someone half the size of me!

Saying that if you are going to avoid frightening/bullying/threatening. You do need to still ensure that actions have consequences. It's harder as you have to be on it a lot more but better for your relationship and child's emotional stability

Don't meet them with 'discipline'. Find out what they need and why they are 'misbehaving'. Are they hungry? Tired? Confused? Scared?

Consistency and immediate, firm consequences - but ones they care about.

Natural consequences are popular but these can fall down if the child doesn't care. Eg. Child is taken to village fete. Child kicks off about something. Parent imposes consequence that they go home straight away and miss fete. Child doesn't actually care and is actually quite happy to go home. Ineffective

Don't meet them with 'discipline'. Find out what they need and why they are 'misbehaving'. Are they hungry? Tired? Confused? Scared

What if the misbehaviour is driven by a want and its due to selfishness or poor impulse?

Eg - want sweets because sweets are nice etc

Want toy other child has

A lot of the issue with toddlers is around selfishness and acting on impulses/wants and these do have to be socialised out of them to a degree in order to produce socialised adults.

I don’t really agree with time outs for children that are as young as 2 - I don’t think at that age they understand why they are sitting on a step.

They don't need to understand it. Its a way to remove them from a situation and train them to predict that the misbehaviour results in a boring outcome where they don't get anything they want from it, thus that misbehaviour isn't worth the risk.

You are paying them for expected behaviour?!! You are sending them the message that it is optional!

But what is wrong with wanting sweets? Sweets are yummy! Of course a child wants sweets. I hate how we try to ‘socialise them’ out of their natural impulses at such a young age. Of course Im not saying give in every time but there is so much worry that we’re going to raise dysfunctional adults from such a young age. We need to empathise and support them without shame or fear (not saying you personally are saying this per se but I see it on here all the time).

A 4 year old is well out of toddlerhood!

@mm81736 🤷‍♀️ we have had a ton of therapy and all the advice is to give positive reinforcement for behavior you want to see.

I think.its less about what specific method you use, and more about being consistent and not getting too emotional. I've learnt this the hard way.
Also consider that children are always worst behaved at home, so the children you're comparing your own to maybe worse behaved when just with their parents.
Mine are a bit older now, but throughout their childhood we've had nothing but praise from school, clubs etc, for behaviour, even when we've been struggling at home.

Sorry it doesn’t work - they don’t know they are there for misbehaving because…. They can’t see the link!! They get its boring sure. Older children might work but for the majority of two year olds… nope!

Reasons for no time out for toddlers

And here’s some more info about why they are ineffective for toddlers if you need it.

Your house would be in chaos if you didn't reward your kids?

Positive reinforcement doesn't mean pints and an app, which ti me sounds like a huge amount of hassle. PR can be meaningful praise, noticing a child's helpfulness, kindness etc and saying it to them.

I never used time outs. Toddlers don't have forethought and impulse control for their actions. They see a toy in another child's hand, they grab it, they don't think 'I'd better not do that or I'll end up on the naughty step'

As a pp said a v small child kicking off over sweets or toys etc is normal, it's up ti us to help them with it - explain, console, move on. There's no quick fix. Connect with them and show them the way. OP, 2 and 4 is hard and full on, I used to mentally imagine myself turning up my patience and kindness to move slowly with them and take things easy, including on myself!