How can you tell if Americans are "poor"?

[flavourable]

Like most of us I watch quite a bit of US drama and box sets but remain baffled about the characters based on things like the house they live in etc...

Can American audiences tell that someone is poor or rich (or in between) based on things such as house size, style of house and other things that are part of TV series?

I know (well think I do so not assuming - please correct if wrong!) that middle and working class may mean different things to UK - but can US viewers pick up more based on cultural norms and things that may need explaining to non-American audiences?

An example is I watched some episodes of True Detective and thought the house was lovely and spacious but everything else in the plot pointed to the fact that this was a "poor rundown neighbourhood with substance issues etc..."

Are there any rules of thumb? Do American audiences get confused my things like this when watching UK or European dramas?

There's a much more obvious rich/poor divide in America than there even is in the UK. American TV shows don't usually depict the people who live in trailers with rubbish piled up outside, who can't afford air conditioning so they will have a fan.

There are also more people who don't even have a home.

For those curious about how Trump et Al are so popular try reading Derr Hunting with Jesus. It’s pre Trump but a fascinating insight into class in the US.

Why are the images of American poverty always a very specific type of visible rural poverty? Yes, it's the kind that's easiest to visualise, but when you consider where people actually live, it's not really representative. Poverty is becoming harder to see in some ways, as it moves into the suburbs.

Another point: If your house has natural gas, you can get a gas dryer, which is cheaper to run than electric. This may be affected by municipalities seeking to ban natural gas in new construction.

I am not up for running all the calculations for my dryer, but a quick Google on running costs says the following: "In the U.S., it costs approximately 45 cents to dry a load of laundry in an electric dryer, based on a 5,600-watt dryer, 40-minute run-time, and a 12-cent-per- kilowatt-hour rate."

@crowisland
Fox is not monolithic. Different media markets experience very different versions of Fox news.

Same in NZ, although I have met a few strange people who use their dryer all the time.

I've just been chatting to my neighbour at the clothesline (we live in adjoining flats).

How does Trump stand for the poor though? My understanding from his last term was that he made the rich richer.

My cousin lives in LA and she said you can't hang washing outside because of the smog.

Local news yes, but I assume she means THE Fox News cable channel. That's the same everywhere.

Is that a typo? Because with the Electoral System Wyoming and Montana do NOT have as much say as New Jersey (Rhode Island seems a weird addition since they have very little say). Although this would never happen with the electoral system it would be possible that if only 5 people in New Jersey voted and every person in Montana that can vote did New Jersey would still have a bigger say in the outcome of the election. BTW Montana gets 4 votes, Wyoming gets 3 votes, New Jersey gets 14 votes and Rhode Island gets 4. Its all determined by population size.

I find it quite amusing. The stereotypes are cracking me up. A country of 330+ million people, and describe in one hundred words or less. 😆😉

The electoral college is one thing the country does correctly. I can't see it going away in the next many years because the Senators of the "fly-over" states want to have a voice and not give all the power to NYC, Chicago and parts of CA.
ALL states deserve representation.

Malcolm in the Middle and the middle both present "ordinary" Americans in a fairly non-aspirational/relatable way. I've no idea if its that realistic but it feels realistic.

To be fair....
Britain is on the brink of becoming the first Islamist nuclear power (according to certain Americans) so the generalisations go both ways.

Unless Joe Biden agrees to stand down gracefully and the Democrats rustle up someone with broader appeal, I think the Republicans have the election in a bag. So said I yesterday afternoon.... and here we are!

I also agree that @masomenos lengthy explanation of why Trump appeals to blue collar Americans. Even though we (and probably they) know it's all a con.

this took me a while...did you mean "safe to say"?

Your own ignorance is showing. How is that much different than here?

Plenty of people here don’t have passports, never left their own country or even county, vote against their own interests (Brexit, the conservatives), etc. There is welfare in the U.S. There is literally the term “going on welfare” there and food stamps.

Not everyone can afford a passport or to fly to Europe which even from New York City is 7.5 hours and that is just the East Coast. It takes my sister minimum 10 hrs to drive to our parents’ house there. The US is only a bit smaller than Europe and obviously you go in one country, it’s a different culture, it’s similar in the States just by moving through different States or even parts of States.

It's been my observation over several decades living here that Americans tend to avoid politics and any topic that touches on politics in conversation unless they are sure they know their company well. Religion likewise.

This is my experience as well. And even among people we know well, we often avoid politics and religion. It's how I have remained on good terms with my siblings and their spouses all these years. I will discuss these subjects with the ones I know tend to agree with me, but politics especially is a "no-go" zone when we are all together. People might ask how can you be close to people without discussing such serious topics. And this is where sports, especially college football and especially the University of Georgia, is the tie that binds.

I’m also speaking from my own personal experience as someone who actually grew up there, live in the UK, and a citizen of both.

I will say it again, Americans do criticise our culture, make plenty of jokes, some likely in the tv shows that you find annoying and complain about our country’s problems. mathanxiety explained it better than I could.

Saying the pledge of allegiance means little to many of us other than knowing it like we do the national anthem. It’s more knowing it than actually pledging allegiance. You can go to any sports game and see people using the time during the national anthem to get snacks. I haven’t said it in years and had to recite it myself to see if I remember it. The last time I had to was elementary school because that was the only time it was recited. Schools here afaik in England do daily act of collective worship even though stats say religion is on the decline and many don’t even practice yet call themselves Christian so how is that much different?

Your experience matches my experience of the side of my family who are from the US and who I spend a lot of time with.

I've visited the US may times, but never lived there. I do, however, have a brother who's lived there, in LA, for 25+ years. (Anything I say here is only a reflection of my experience. Please don't bash me if anything's inaccurate.)

He and his American wife divorced around 5 years ago.Their life was pretty middle class, but they had no savings to fall back on, having married and had a child late in life. Both parents have always worked full time, and their child was in a private school until the divorce.

He worked in film post-production. He's no longer working, as the effects of the writers' strike are still being felt. US welfare/benefits are very different to ours. Unemployment benefit was generous, but time-limited, to (I think) 6 months. After that, you have to work again to re-earn the entitlement. That hasn't been possible for him. The upshot of all this, is that he now lives in an RV (camper-van). His ex-wife and child live in a rented flat.

He has no health insurance, which is pretty scary in your 60s. He can't afford to visit a dentist, and has lost several teeth due to gum disease. He may be able to get help from a dental teaching hospital, but in the meantime he's unemployable in any customer facing role, as looks are so important and recruitment people won't even put him forward for interview. He has a an ok car, which he needs as he has a child to care for at weekends/school holidays, but the insurance for it is much, much higher than it would be here.

The saving grace is that he will be able to draw his state pension now, at 62, and it's around double what he'd get here, which really surprised me. (Apparently you only need to contribute for 10 years to get this, unlike the 40 years in the UK.) Once he has his pension he will be entitled to use some kind of Medicaid. In LA that pension won't go far, but if he moves he won't be able to see his child regularly.

If he lived in the UK he would probably still be unemployed, but he wouldn't have to live in an RV, as rent would be paid via benefits. He'd have free healthcare and would be able to access an NHS dentist (yes, I know that's hard in some areas).

Another signifier for me of money or lack of it is maternity leave. Whilst UK maternity leave isn't amazing, it's more generous than the US. My SIL went back to work less than 2 months after a C-section, even knowing that would be their only child. I'd guess having a reasonable amount of time off after a baby would show you have some money behind you.

I think life in the US can be wonderful if you're employed and/or have money. If not, it's a fast-track so some serious hardship. The gap between rich and poor is more obvious (to me) there than it is here.

Agree @DdraigGoch European markers are soooo different to US markers of wealth. Same for north Asian, South Asian, West African vs East African markers of wealth. It can be fascinating.

Being slender and cycling can be a sign of wealth in Europe, and elsewhere it is a sign of poverty that you cannot afford a car or food.

Different country, but I used to live in Canada, and a poverty marker was to not do any sport at all. Speed walking was big, as it was the most basic sport that everyone could do. But back in the UK, no one would call other poor because of the lack of sporting activity in their life.

Almost always. Some cities has laws against it.

its changing now though.

im in canada so only slightly different on this topic. Growing up you’d never put clothing out. It was unsightly. I live in a very nice area (cheaper street in the neighbourhood) and most people put clothing out. Next street over where houses cost an additional 100k? You never see it unless it’s pool towels.

@beryldaperil Speed walking = Poor? I do this everyday and thought i was quite.. well.. bougie .

Back to TV shows: Mare of Easttown is an interesting one.

In the U.K., a woman with the job Kate Winslet had would be decidedly middle class. Senior detective, in a place a bit like Burnley (maybe?). She’d live in a nice, solidly built, quite large by UK standards, detached or semi-detached house. She’d run a good car, shop at Sainsbury’s or Tescos. Expect her kids to go to university. Have social standing and some connections.

But in her part of Pennsylvania, a state bordering relatively-wealthy New Jersey, ex-industrial, now still quite industrial but also has tourism and agriculture and manufacturing and some financial services, pretty thin on the ground in terms of fancy city-based neighborhoods but some quite lovely rural and semi-rural areas, she’s decidedly working class. Run down house in a not-so-nice area, working more hours than her UK counterpart would, probably earning less, far lower social standing.

Partly this is TV. Partly this is to do with entry requirements for police’s forces in each place. Partly she’s a mad lady with few social niceties about her. But the context is pretty representative I think.