How can you tell if Americans are "poor"?

[flavourable]

Like most of us I watch quite a bit of US drama and box sets but remain baffled about the characters based on things like the house they live in etc...

Can American audiences tell that someone is poor or rich (or in between) based on things such as house size, style of house and other things that are part of TV series?

I know (well think I do so not assuming - please correct if wrong!) that middle and working class may mean different things to UK - but can US viewers pick up more based on cultural norms and things that may need explaining to non-American audiences?

An example is I watched some episodes of True Detective and thought the house was lovely and spacious but everything else in the plot pointed to the fact that this was a "poor rundown neighbourhood with substance issues etc..."

Are there any rules of thumb? Do American audiences get confused my things like this when watching UK or European dramas?

This is such an interesting thread

I have spent a lot of time in the US as I have immediate family there in LA, some family in San Francisco and other parts of California and Texas class indicators are certainly different less subtle

The poor areas I have been to have been in LA and the contrast is huge to what are considered mc areas, where as in London you will have a run down area and just a few roads away it’s very different in LA it’s huge areas like the size of a borough and between the wealthier areas it’s a gradual change but noticeable (now you also have the tent towns that have changed this but in nicer areas they tend to get moved on quickly). I can also see communities really take pride in their areas and supporting each other. areas I have been to have a very high Latino population. Many are very proud to live in what they consider to be the greatest country in the world (as are my family) and many seem to believe in the American Dream (as do many in my family) and Trump’s politics really plays into this belief. Of course I am not saying everyone in this demographic feels this way but I think Trump supporters tend to be more vocal so this was noticeable

Most people I know in the states laugh at my part time work hours (37.5) having two jobs one being full time isn’t unusual, the fear of being poor is a real drive for many. and no my family do not understand (as they have forgotten) the benefits of drying clothes outside I have to do this hidden away 😆 why would I use a dryer when it’s so hot baffles me but now i understand why it’s hidden away

back to politics I have met many people I have been surprised they are Trump supporters, LA hipster types who are very proud of being working class, many immigrants but I think that plays into the American Dream (which has been a reality for many) these people are vocal in their support, Trump isn’t just tapping into those that felt ignored (similar to what Farage did) also those who have come to the country in recent years and experienced the American Dream or feel it’s on their grasp

In my experience it’s not that Americans think America is great and are not critical of their country but the general belief seems to me that most believe America is the most powerful and influential country

Im not sure the rest of the world quite views America in that way anymore

Absolutely not. It’s a dishonest book pushing a particular agenda. J.D. Vance doesn’t have a single shred of integrity.

Americans aren’t so fanatically binary about tumble dryers - most will do a bit of both, and the mix will probably vary depending on time of year, what kind of things are in the wash, and how busy they are.

Where my mom lives the window for line drying is pretty short - maybe 3 months of the year? During that time my mother loved to hang her sheets out. other times of year she has an inside line set up - winters are dry and the house is warm, so mold is not generally a concern, unlike most places in the UK. There are some things that always go in the dryer though - denim (so it shrinks back), jersey and towels (much softer, hate a scratchy line dried towel).

my husband is English and absolutely obsessed with the idea of line drying / hates the dryer on moral grounds (though hardly environmentally conscious in any other area of his life), and I have seen him take 3 days to get a load of laundry dry in the winter. Fine for him if that’s how he wants to spend his time, but I have better things to do.

Wasn’t the book celebrated and J.D Vance himself by liberals when first released

what’s changed ? His stance towards Trump has but the book remains the same

I have no idea whether “liberals” celebrated the book. All I can say is that it is a badly written collection of myths and cliches with a transparent political bias. It bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.

House prices can be cheaper in certain states because land is so much cheaper. Eg, I watched a YouTuber house hunting and she said she was going to look at a ‘small house’ (in Texas) It was about 2500 square foot, detached, double garage with several acres of land! All for around $300k. My jaw was on the floor.

Right but you seem to be forgetting about the urban poor who tend to vote democrat.

@flavourable here’s a video that shows a typical poor urban neighborhood. This one is in Chicago, but every big city has one that is similar.

If you want films or shows featuring "poor Americans", also try

Films:
Where the Heart is
Me, Earl & the Dying Girl (Earl)
A Most Beautiful Thing
The Blue Beatle

I barely watch tv now so mostly only know vintage tv series to suggest
The Wire
Some of the characters in Breaking Bad
Sanford & Son
All in the Family
One Day at a Time (Valerie B... version 1970s)
Welcome back, Kotter (bonus spotting an early famous face in that one)
Taxi

I'm not sure what your definition of poor is, but several of these don't qualify. The Bunkers were not poor in All in the Family. The family in One Day at a Time was not poor.

Lower income does not necessarily translate into poor in the US.

On a side note I never intended tis thread to be "poor or US bashing" - just wanted an insight into perspectives seen on TV

@flavourableit's not your fault at all, that's just the way these threads invariably go.

Some of the TV references on this thread are laughable if people genuinely think they accurately represent particular social classes. It would be a bit like someone suggesting that "Keeping Up Appearances" is a faithful portrayal of a social climbing middle class wannabe and her working class relatives. 😂 Obviously, sitcoms exaggerate, simplify, and reduce complex situations for comic effect. I would take most of the TV recommendations with a grain of salt (as we say in the US).

Thank you, I found this on Disney+ and binged it yesterday! Loving it.

I started reading Hillbilly Elegy this morning, because I am interested in the person who might inherit the Presidency. I lived in the US (Tri-State area) from 1980-85, and have been back more recently for visits, still have friends there.

JD Vance is fairly typical of those descended from Scots Irish immigrants who settled in Appalachia. He understands how and why that cohort have transferred their political allegiances from Democrat to Republican. Interestingly, I saw the shift starting to take place among some groups of acquaintances in the small towns of NJ/NY/CT. People without college degrees or trade skills that could become small businesses were already struggling for employment. There was a tendency to serve in the military for the college education opportunities that followed. Globalisation of the economy has done nothing for this cohort.

My successful, college-educated, liberal-thinking professional friends and acquaintances are aghast at the polarisation, but like Hilary Rodham Clinton, view redneck attitudes as deplorable.

Unless Joe Biden agrees to stand down gracefully and the Democrats rustle up someone with broader appeal, I think the Republicans have the election in a bag.

*’The writers/producers of My Name is Earl also had another comedy show called Raising Hope where all the main characters were poor.

Multi Generational living, teen parenthood, insecure part time employment.

The main character, Jimmy, who's parents had him when they were very young had a fling with a woman who turned out to be a serial killer.

He raised their child who was born in prison while living with his parents and great grandmother who they all cared for. It's a great show and is probably still around on one of the streaming platforms.*

I flip flop on if they are poor or lower income.

Virgina had the same job as a maid for most of Jimmy’s childhood. Burt had a lawn care business, Virginia was the main carer for Maw-maw, who owned the house and suffered dementia so she wouldn’t have been able to live alone. The house was large enough for all of them to live in and have their own rooms. If Maw Maw died, they would have likely inherited the house. Jimmy worked for his dad and at a grocery store but married Sabrina who comes from a rich family and he and Hope move into the house she inherited from her grandmother and him becoming a writer/illustrator for children’s book if I’m recalling it correctly.

I live in Philadelphia. I would class us as poor but no longer living quite under poverty line. Our house is a twin and cost $86,000. The neighbourhood has shootings regularly and a crack house on the corner, but it also has nice neighbours too. We are poor because we live paycheck to pay check and usually run out of money by middle of each month after all the bills come out. We have one car, which was second hand and is 13 years old. Our kids qualify for free school lunches and scholarships based on income.

a lot of Americans can borrow vast amounts on credit cards and mortgages etc. I know people who earn less than us who live in nicer houses. Who have brand new fancy furniture because it is on credit zero down. Whose kids wear designer clothes.

Yes, of course we can tell. Don’t think we’re very good at discerning class amongst people from the UK either. I was shocked that farmers are somehow considered posh (info coming from my husband). It’s really a different world.

In the US, there is a stark gap between the people who saved towards tuition fees for university and those who didn't. JD Vance's family didn't and probably could not have afforded to do so. But he joined the Marine Corps at 18 for 4 years, and learned a lot about credit and finance (there's an anecdote about him buying his first car and his mentor telling him not to take the car dealer's commercial finance deal because it would cost so much less via the credit union he belonged to). The really important point about JD Vance's narrative is that his parents' demographic stopped bothering to parent at adolescence. The UK, in large part, is there now.

JDV makes it clear that he joined the Marines for four years to fund univeristy fees. I suspect I will read in the next 50 pages that he worked his socks off to achieve entry to Yale Law School. I don't expect to read a great deal about Peter Thiel's $100K investment in him as a political candidate.

Hillbilly Elegy is a very good read regardless. Ghost written, IDK (suspect so, by JH Moerhinger perhaps, whose own memoir (The Tender Bar) is a lovely tribute to the kindness of the older men his father used to hang out with in the pub who looked out for his son after his dad died prematurely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate

I’m American and when I was younger, I was amazed in the opposite direction. I remember watching the first Harry Potter movie and seeing how the Dursleys’ house was right up against their neighbors’, which isn’t something people of their social class would have in the US.

I’m American. On TV, this is how you know a character is supposed to be poor:

Woman is outside the house with curlers in her hair.

Show is set in the present, but characters stand around outside smoking.

Characters are wearing faded t-shirts.

Character says “ain’t,” but is not from the South.

More later, have to go.

Catfish has lots of good examples.
Teeth.
Very obese. But not always. But fresh food is so expensive.

It's interesting. When I went to the USA, at 24 I flew into JFK on Christmas Eve in a big blizzard. My transport "home" was several hours late arriving and I literally had no means of paying for overnight accommodation. Fortunately, we got back to xDH's home in time for the full Xmas Eve festivities. I was so out of it so quickly, I think they thought I was stupid for several days. Once we put that misapprehension to rest, they were brilliantly supportive.

There is a massive difference between the coding of wealth and poverty in television and movies and how people actually live.

just because television shows tend to use certain cues to indicate poverty does not mean those cues are accurate. They are stereotypes that film well, nothing more. That is why you see them over and over again.

My newly acquired family were American middle class, but their children who didn't have degrees have struggled to remain middle class.

Exactly.