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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This global Microsoft Outage

496 replies

SSpratt · 19/07/2024 09:10

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cnk4jdwp49et

Any worries? It is chaos out there by the look of the news.

My experience is that I’m not able to work today and had trouble using my debit card this morning. The transaction eventually went through but it’s not showing on my account.

Planes grounded as mass worldwide IT outage hits airlines, media and banks

The cause of the outage is unclear - but Microsoft says it's taking "mitigation issues".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cnk4jdwp49et

OP posts:
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NighttimeNightmare · 19/07/2024 14:48

Orangesandlemons77 · 19/07/2024 14:00

I've got an online delivery booked for this afternoon with essentials in that for elderly neighbour (86) and MIL (81)- Ocado

Also pharmacy has not received prescription from the GPs so no Oestrogel for me over the weekend

It is really damaging isn’t it. Some people are suggesting that you just get by till it’s all fixed but it’s not that simple. I hope both your situations get resolved quickly

Createausername1970 · 19/07/2024 14:48

roses321 · 19/07/2024 14:30

Well with all due respect to your husband, the marketplace doesn't really dictate much of a choice does it.

Most people run on Windows for a start, and as for Crowdstrike, there are numerous cyber security companies out there, this is just one of them.

Unless your husband is planning on creating his own threat intelligence software, there is very little choice but to rely on external providers for cyber security and if it's any consolation, it is highly likely that Crowdstrike will not survive this - their shares have already plummeted and anyone who's anyone will likely very quickly migrate away from this vendor leaving them crippled.

The answer is having a decent disaster recovery scenario, but in situations like this, it's exceptional in my opinion.

He would agree with you.

Noddy1969 · 19/07/2024 14:54

CaptainSasha · 19/07/2024 14:47

It's MS compatible so will have some sort of business relationship and agreement with MS.

Why? I could fire up VB, write and publish a Windows application with no involvement with MS in the slightest.

Crowdstrike may well have had some involvement with MS during development, but it remains their responsibility to ensure the software isn't flawed, by testing.

Some seem determined to blame MS for this simply because...well, "MS, the twats".

SerendipityJane · 19/07/2024 14:54

Having spent a good few years with a Linux desktop as my primary machine and with using multiple Linux boxes every day, Linux isn't as good as Windows or OSX as a desktop OS.

My biggest grumble is the lack of an Outlook app. It's the biggest single disincentive to removing desktop windows. Also Miracast (which I have to admit "just works" in every windows machine I've needed to use it on.). However that is more than made up for by knowing that I will never ever ever have any app "updated" or "upgraded" (i.e. broken) behind my back. I'll also never wake up and find a newer version of Mint installed. Unlike Windows 10 users who got upgraded without warning to Windows 11. Can they rollback ? No.

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 14:54

CaptainSasha · 19/07/2024 14:47

It's MS compatible so will have some sort of business relationship and agreement with MS.

CrowdStrike may or may not have an agreement with Microsoft. There's nothing stopping you developing and shipping a Windows application without any kind of agreement with MS.

But even if such an agreement exists it won't include Microsoft quality-checking CrowdStrike's code unless CrowdStrike is delivered through the MS Store. Which it isn't.

Why are you so hell-bent on pinning this on Microsoft? And why are you doing it so badly? I mean, you could possibly make the case that Windows stuffs too many different things into the kernel rather than in user space encourages this kind of issue. But you're not. Instead you seem to be suggesting MS has some kind of moral obligation to verify its competitor's code. You really are barking up the wrong tree here.

taxguru · 19/07/2024 14:56

CaptainSasha · 19/07/2024 14:40

But it does have something to do wit MS. MS has chosen this third party to provide essential services. I worked in 3rd party raising in the tech sector, MS bares the responsibility to its customers, MD processes chose this 3rd party rather than one that didn't make such a mistake. 3rd parties and MS work very closely together, lawyers are part of this relationship as are developers and may others, it's a close partnership.

Microsoft didn't choose Cloudstrike. Some Microsoft users chose Cloudstrike.

Somepeoplearesnippy · 19/07/2024 14:57

I'm sure for the people affected it's been awful but it's not the total disaster people are saying.

To put in context - I live in London. I've had an Ocado delivery today and placed another one for Sunday. I've been to the post office and sent parcels. I got the train to and from a nearby suburb (using my Oyster card)where I paid a cheque into one bank account in branch and I took cash out of another account from an ATM. I visited 3 small shops and one large supermarket and paid by card in all of them.

The only problems I encountered were delays to the train caused by someone crashing a car into a railway bridge and one shop selling out of skimmed milk and I don't think we can blame Microsoft for those.

SerendipityJane · 19/07/2024 14:57

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 14:54

CrowdStrike may or may not have an agreement with Microsoft. There's nothing stopping you developing and shipping a Windows application without any kind of agreement with MS.

But even if such an agreement exists it won't include Microsoft quality-checking CrowdStrike's code unless CrowdStrike is delivered through the MS Store. Which it isn't.

Why are you so hell-bent on pinning this on Microsoft? And why are you doing it so badly? I mean, you could possibly make the case that Windows stuffs too many different things into the kernel rather than in user space encourages this kind of issue. But you're not. Instead you seem to be suggesting MS has some kind of moral obligation to verify its competitor's code. You really are barking up the wrong tree here.

MS has a full time job not checking it's own code. Expecting them to not check someone elses would be madness.

(I speak as someone who had to pull a few late nights a few years ago when MS "fix" for a printer driver installation security flaw managed to break 3 offices of users printing .... )

Southwestten · 19/07/2024 14:59

I’m in Corfu under the flight path and there are far fewer planes than usual today - presumably because of the outage.
I feel really sorry for everyone who had holidays booked today.

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:02

My biggest grumble is the lack of an Outlook app

I got round that by using office.com. The online version of Word was also ok although Excel could be a bit more of a pain. A much bigger deal for me was the lack of Visio. I had a Windows VM running pretty much just for that. VPN clients also caused problems, often randomly breaking after updates, and anything that requires audio like Teams was unreliable. Audio handling is way better on Linux than it used to be but it still sucks.

We didn't have any users who were upgraded to Win11 without warning. Our sysadmins did a good job of managing that near-seamlessly.

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:03

MS has a full time job not checking it's own code. Expecting them to not check someone elses would be madness.

😂

Devonbabs · 19/07/2024 15:12

Grammarnut · 19/07/2024 12:42

This. If it's on the cloud it does not exist. On a laptop etc - you need three copies, on an external hard drive, on a usb, and on hard drive of laptop (preferably two laptops). The cloud is not a back-up. Hard copy if possible (I know not possible if it's e.g. a novel in progress).
We are too reliant on digital technology. One massive solar flare and the lot goes down, ditto massive aggressive hacking from e.g. China etc.

It’s like people are blind to this - also possible that info in the cloud can be purposely amended. Only keep hard copies of books some might deem controversial.

it’s like we have learned nothing from history. How much knowledge was lost when the Library of Alexandria was burned to the ground?

LlynTegid · 19/07/2024 15:14

Whilst I don't blame Microsoft though it is an outage affecting their products, it highlights how we should not be concentrating parts of the IT supply and support chain in a few hands.

I hope the UK government now we have one run by people who may be competent will look at reducing dependence on any one part of the IT supply and/or support chain.

HonoraBridge · 19/07/2024 15:21

I fully accept that some places and people may be having problems but I am not seeing any impact. I have booked an online delivery today. Done my online banking with several banks. Logged into work remotely where everything is working normally. My husband took a train into King’s Cross and another out to Gloucester; he saw a few delays and cancellations but nothing totally out of the ordinary; his journeys were fine. It feels as if the MSM is whipping up anxiety and drama, as usual.

BingoMarieHeeler · 19/07/2024 15:25

HonoraBridge · 19/07/2024 15:21

I fully accept that some places and people may be having problems but I am not seeing any impact. I have booked an online delivery today. Done my online banking with several banks. Logged into work remotely where everything is working normally. My husband took a train into King’s Cross and another out to Gloucester; he saw a few delays and cancellations but nothing totally out of the ordinary; his journeys were fine. It feels as if the MSM is whipping up anxiety and drama, as usual.

Edited

Same, we’ve not had any issues today. It’s how it goes online though, and has done forever. Everyone gets whipped up into a frenzy about everything.

People blaming Microsoft (the customer) for a problem with their supplier, is like my kids blaming me that Ocado didn’t have their Quavers in stock this week.

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:26

@HonoraBridge as the day goes on more and more systems are being fixed so the chance of you being affected is reducing. Make no mistake, though - some big systems went out and there are still thousands of desktops and laptops out there that are unusable. This is one of the most impactful IT outages in recent years.

EBearhug · 19/07/2024 15:26

This will be good long-term - it will make organisations look at testing, single points of failure, DR processes, and so on. And then everyone will forget again and so we go round the cycle.

I am a Linux sysadmin, so I have a professional duty to diss M$ at every opportunity, but even I can say it's Crowdstrike rather than Microsoft primarily at fault here.

I agree with comments upthread that coders are becoming less proficient - when I was learning to code at uni, which was after the era of punched cards, but only just, there was a focus on efficiency, using no more memory etc than necessary (which is partly what lead to Y2K problems) and no one is that bothered about that now.

A friend was telling me last night about a couple of years ago, going for a lecturing job, and learning the average CompSci student doesn't even know what an IP address is these days. I don't know if they still have to spend hours analysing every field in network packages these days. I found that very tedious, but I do see it's important knowledge for some people in the industry to hold, and it's probably been helpful for me to have the understanding in my background, though i focus on other strengths.* Apparently they don't teach the OSI 7 layer model any more, either, but the concept of there being different layers at which things happen, from 0s and 1s to a pretty, interactive GUI, is important to understand. But then I also had a director which had never heard of Ada Lovelace, which rather surprised me.

  • These include using MN to procrastinate instead of debugging a script which isn't working.
roses321 · 19/07/2024 15:28

EBearhug · 19/07/2024 15:26

This will be good long-term - it will make organisations look at testing, single points of failure, DR processes, and so on. And then everyone will forget again and so we go round the cycle.

I am a Linux sysadmin, so I have a professional duty to diss M$ at every opportunity, but even I can say it's Crowdstrike rather than Microsoft primarily at fault here.

I agree with comments upthread that coders are becoming less proficient - when I was learning to code at uni, which was after the era of punched cards, but only just, there was a focus on efficiency, using no more memory etc than necessary (which is partly what lead to Y2K problems) and no one is that bothered about that now.

A friend was telling me last night about a couple of years ago, going for a lecturing job, and learning the average CompSci student doesn't even know what an IP address is these days. I don't know if they still have to spend hours analysing every field in network packages these days. I found that very tedious, but I do see it's important knowledge for some people in the industry to hold, and it's probably been helpful for me to have the understanding in my background, though i focus on other strengths.* Apparently they don't teach the OSI 7 layer model any more, either, but the concept of there being different layers at which things happen, from 0s and 1s to a pretty, interactive GUI, is important to understand. But then I also had a director which had never heard of Ada Lovelace, which rather surprised me.

  • These include using MN to procrastinate instead of debugging a script which isn't working.

Yeah but forget the coders...

What about the UAT testers??? Or is that a dead breed these days.

looks outside

Oh sorry, my bad, of course it is.

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:30

@EBearhug tell me about it. I'm a network geek and I've lost count of the number of sysadmins who don't understand how IP subnetting works. Or what DNS is. Or that, if I can connect to a server well enough to get a 404 error back, the reason their service isn't working is not because it's "being blocked on the firewall".

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:31

roses321 · 19/07/2024 15:28

Yeah but forget the coders...

What about the UAT testers??? Or is that a dead breed these days.

looks outside

Oh sorry, my bad, of course it is.

Testing? Isn't that what your customers are for?

EBearhug · 19/07/2024 15:32

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:31

Testing? Isn't that what your customers are for?

I reckon so, given the number of "feature requests" I recently raised for some new software.

isthismylifenow · 19/07/2024 15:33

Thebellofstclements · 19/07/2024 11:15

Now it's you showing YOUR privilege.
People around the world living in abject poverty tend to not be paid once a week, it's more likely paid for a day's work when they can get it. And getting an entire week's worth would be a miraculous stroke of luck.
Under-developed countries' poverty is completely unlike the "relative poverty" that we have in the UK.

I think I know what poverty looks like seeing as I am not in the UK and in an African country.

Many people who are fortunate enough to have a weekly paid job still live in poverty. That one weekly salary can be supporting 10 people. Those who survive on daily piece jobs mostly live in extreme poverty.

My post was in reply to a pp about workers who may not be getting access to their wages this Friday, as one of our main banks has been affected. And chances are that they will not have a stash of just in case foods as they will have been dependant on today's wage to have a meal tonight. Pp suggested that everyone will just have sufficient to see them through a few days and that just is not the case everywhere.

SerendipityJane · 19/07/2024 15:42

HowardTJMoon · 19/07/2024 15:30

@EBearhug tell me about it. I'm a network geek and I've lost count of the number of sysadmins who don't understand how IP subnetting works. Or what DNS is. Or that, if I can connect to a server well enough to get a 404 error back, the reason their service isn't working is not because it's "being blocked on the firewall".

Are these the same folk that think you can recall an email, and that "stolen" data gets recovered safely ? Or that a password on a spreadsheet is somehow "sophisticated encryption" ?

Stoptherideiwanttogetoff24 · 19/07/2024 15:42

Arghgerroffyabastard · 19/07/2024 11:51

😂 You must live in a very worried, scared little world.

I’m in a technical team at an affected company, and this is what we’re doing to fix the affected machines.

Not scared just very sceptical, all the lies we have been told about covid and the government ignoring these so called life saving guidelines makes it start to be difficult to accept anything you’re told

SerendipityJane · 19/07/2024 15:43

all the lies we have been told about covid

What lies ?