Just Stop Oil Jailed

[OlgaBracley]

What wonderful news!
I bet they can hardly believe it. Nor can I but I am thrilled-unlike them.

They are peaceful. They’re not blowing anyone up. Oil companies are violent - literally killing you slowly.

Just like just stop oil ...so bloody rude. Does it make you feel better.

OK then of the UK stopped buying from China. Does that help?

Get to hell.

Small mind.

Hands up how many of you have given up your cars and holidays and don't buy any electronic gadgets.

I bet all of your carbon foot prints are awful.

Like yours

If your definition of not-peaceful is confined to blowing stuff up, then yeah, by that definition it’s peaceful. However, deaths have occurred as a direct result of their actions; people are missing funerals, hospital appointments, job interviews; people’s lives and livelihoods are put at risk.

I have no problem if you think the scale of the crisis warrants protests of this kind, but just say that; to claim they are peaceful is completely obtuse.

By definition their actions are correctly described as peaceful protest. Just because you disagree with their aims or methods doesn't change that.

I don't agree with what they do either, although as I am not a complete idiot I recognise that climate change is probably the biggest threat we face.

But 5 years when compared to the shorter sentences handed out for violent crimes is patently ridiculous.

And how many deaths later, from extreme heat/war/shortages?

It's about being realistic about the cause of the problem. The UK is responsible for 1% of global emissions. If these activists actually cared about making an impact and not just pretending, they would target the likes of Amazon and any major company supporting China and the US. Want to make a serious personal impact? Reduce your beef consumption and stop buying crap from Amazon if it's made in China. Blocking the M25 just puts lives in danger and makes you a massive idiot.

So yea, I'm happy they're going to jail.

I think you’ve missed my point.

I’m not disputing the scale of the crisis and I actually agree with their overall message.

What I’m disputing is the characterisation of them as “peaceful” - they’re not.

Its a valid position to take to say that their tactics are justified given the scale of the issue, but don’t pretend that they’re a load of peace-and-love hippies.

It grabs headlines, gets attention, pisses people off.

It’s not ‘their cause’ it’s our cause. I don’t understand people being more pissed off they can’t get to work on time than Big Oil Companies making record profits whilst the planet burns because of them.

They’re receiving relatively big sentences for peaceful protesting. There’s a dangerous precedent being set.

It is deemed peaceful by the lawful definition of the word. Not pretending they’re flower children.

Good, silly fuckers.
And I don't hate the climate and/or legitimate protests I hate criminals

You mean, protests that don’t disrupt anything. What would be the point of a protest if it doesn’t disrupt? It would be ignored.

They were given 5 years for conspiring to stop traffic.

People get less for, amongst other things, violent assault, firearms offenses, possession of offensive material.... and all sorts of offenses any rational person would agree cause far more harm.

I don't care WHY they block the road or damage art or whatever.
You can't just do illegal stuff because you feel morally justified.

Exactly this

Well that’s where we disagree

"The UK is responsible for 1% of global emissions."

How is that worked out. Is that worked out per person or by country. We are small in comparison to China. If you worked out emissions by person what would that be? I've no idea where to look

Carbon footprints in the UK are huge, I worked mine out and was horrified. I only take the car out once a week but because it is diesel it really bumped me up. I try and save water, I'm always switching off lights, TV is rarely on during the day but it was bad.

I'm trying to buy products manufactured in this country, I buy wooden toys for DGC but half the time they're still made in China and shipped across the world. I would really like shops to detail where a product is manufactured. I t's not always possible when you buy on line

What has excited me is the use of large sails on container ships. This technology was evolved in the UK but couldn't get backing from the Government so if I remember correctly is being manufactured elsewhere

What I'm trying to say in a very un-cohesive roundabout way is that we should still be striving to do better. Just because we're seemingly doing okay doesn't mean we can't be top of the class and lead by example and help other countries out. We cannot be complacent regarding this subject

Sorry if this is all a bit garbled and off the topic

I’m pleased about this and hope it sets an example to the rest of these fools. We have a right to peaceful protest but the shit these idiots pull is unacceptable. Lock them all up. Until the rest slink back into the gutter.

Whenever someone mentions China, remember that the UK (and the West) outsourced most of it’s manufacturing to China and India because of cheap labour, looser human rights laws, physical space.

We don’t make much ‘stuff’ in the UK. But we buy it from China. We are connected to Chinese emissions.

Also, the biggest trick Big Oil/Tech have pulled off is to shift the responsibility of reducing your consumption onto the individual and take away the focus from themselves.

(Not saying you shouldn’t do what you can but we should also be pressuring and calling loudly for change at the top)

Yep, let the planet burn and let’s not make a peep, who cares

I think that was sort of what I was trying to say about the UK and China. I did originally start my post by pointing out we did start the industrial revolution in the UK but I couldn't get it to all link up in my mind We have a huge responsibility

I am really saddened by the lack of manufacturing or production of anything in this country. I don't understand why we can't even make our own prescription drugs here - and yeah can we not find something better than blister packs. I have found that Boots will take empty blister packs back but it would be better if drugs were dispensed differently in the first place

Alternative actions:

• properly priced carbon taxes/trading, including border adjustments, hypothecated against income taxes to make it politically saleable;
• drop the over-regulation of nuclear to make it economic, with a multi-decade building programme of power plants (like France did succesfully) to capture economies of scale, made popular becuase of the cheaper energy this would afford for all;
• solar at scale, though I suspect normal market economics will supply this given how fast solar technology is advancing;
• significantly increased R&D in carbon capture and storage, which is undersupplied becuase it is a public good. Not sure how to make this happen at the scale needed, realistically, but carbon trading, prizes, and international coordination mechanisms need to be part of it;
• I'm not sure what to do about China and India, which is a massive gap in my plans, but acting in coordination with the US and EU will be a start. Much easier said than done.
• Focus on adaptation, to reduce the human cost of climate change.

The issue is the the above all need significant public support. XR/JSO's actions are almost certainly increasing public opposition, making the above less likely.

We saw the right wing parties (and the right of the Tories) try out anti-green populism at the last election. I think XR is playing exactly into their hands.

It would also help if we had a green party and environmentalist movement that was evidence-based and at peace with market solutions. But they mostly seem to enjoy environmentalism for the counter-cultural vibes, not results, and distracted by other issues.

What's your theory of change, i.e. how does blocking motorways create better climate results? What are the intermediate steps?

Motorway blocked... people angry at XR/JSO.... climate better?