Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the judge was right to throw the book at Just Stop Oil?

454 replies

StripedPiggy · 18/07/2024 19:30

Five Just Stop Oil activists, including leader & XR founder Roger Hallam have been sentenced to up to 5 years in jail for blocking the M25 & other main roads.
Their intention was to cause gridlock on roads in the South East. The disruption they caused resulted in people missing medical appointments, flights & business meetings.

Well done to that judge. The criminal justice system is right to pass serious sentences on these fanatics which will act as a strong deterrent to others who might try to cause mass disruption, and put people’s lives in danger, to further a political agenda, whatever it might be.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
usernother · 19/07/2024 08:07

I've been reading and laughing at the weeping by their supporters on Twitter. Excellent.

Alexandra2001 · 19/07/2024 08:08

These sentences are the sort of lengths handed out to pro democracy activists in Hong Kong or anti war protestors in Russia.

People who we gladly let into the country to escape persecution.... they are completely over the top and explain why the UK has the highest number of people jailed in Europe, worst over crowding and is now having to let people out of jail early.

They were protesting peacefully, you or me may not agree with Stop Oil but its a sad day for the UK when the criminal justice system is used to stop protest and i hope the sentences are reviewed.

A man in plymouth recently held captive, tortured and raped a woman, he got 12 years, will be out after 8, how on earth is 5 years justified?

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 08:09

usernother · 19/07/2024 08:07

I've been reading and laughing at the weeping by their supporters on Twitter. Excellent.

Were you stuck in traffic? Otherwise that seems like a pretty unpleasant and ignorant response?

Alexandra2001 · 19/07/2024 08:09

usernother · 19/07/2024 08:07

I've been reading and laughing at the weeping by their supporters on Twitter. Excellent.

That says quite a lot about you as a person doesn't it.

Brefugee · 19/07/2024 08:10

When i studied politics, one thing we looked at was the group Fathers 4 Justice. And immediately everyone thinks of batman on top of buckingham palace and so on.

But actually, they "attack" on 2 prongs. There are the attention grabbers, who definitely bring attention to their cause. And then there are the others, who meet up with politicians, civil servants and lawyers to get the Fathers 4 Justice concerns heard and attended to in the right places. And it was ever thus.

So you have XO and JSO etc (if anyone remembers the protests in the german villages near the huge open cast mine? that's my town's villages that were laid waste to) - there were huge, noisy demonstrations and occupations of equipment. And in the background? lawyers for the protestors meeting with politicians and the mining company and guess what? the 5 villages scheduled for the next demolition have been saved. Protesting does work. It has been shown time and time again. And that is why it goes on. And that is why it must be allowed (and yes, arrests for illegal actions - but no disproportionate punitive for the sake of it punishments)

Ericablair0001 · 19/07/2024 08:10

@GreekDogRescue I don't work from home, often have to spend 1-2 hours on the M25 to get to work. I'm self employed, so if I had been stuck in that traffic, I'd have lost a day's pay, and no doubt have been pissed off at the time. But what inconveniences me personally isn't the most important thing in the world. I don't think being able to put your own interests to one side for a moment to think of the bigger picture is elitist.

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 08:17

Taken from the Guardian today:

"Michel Forst, the UN’s special rapporteur on environmental defenders, who attended part of the trial, issued a statement at its conclusion.
“Today is a dark day for peaceful environmental protest” in the UK, he said. “This sentence should shock the conscience of any member of the public. It should also put all of us on high alert on the state of civic rights and freedoms in the United Kingdom.
“Rulings like today’s set a very dangerous precedent, not just for environmental protest but any form of peaceful protest that may, at one point or another, not align with the interests of the government of the day.”
Greenpeace UK’s programme director, Amy Cameron, said: “What sort of country locks people away for years for planning a peaceful demonstration, let alone for talking about it on a Zoom call? We’re giving a free hand to the polluting elite robbing us of a habitable planet while jailing those who’re trying to stop them – it makes no sense.
“These sentences are not a one-off anomaly but the culmination of years of repressive legislation, overblown government rhetoric and a concerted assault on the right of juries to deliberate according to their conscience. It’s part of the mess the Labour government has inherited from its predecessor and they must fix it by giving back to people the right to protest that’s been slowly being taken away from them.”

https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/ACSR_C_2024_26_UK_SR_EnvDefenders_public_statement_18.07.2024.pdf

Edingril · 19/07/2024 08:20

Gingerisgoodforyou · 18/07/2024 19:34

They've been driven to action by the inaction of all other channels. The impact of climate change will be far greater than a minor traffic jam inconvenience.

I think a jail sentence is disproportionate- we hear prisons are overcrowded and there's no room, and these people aren't a danger to the public (unless they've done this multiple times already and will reoffend, I don't see why a community sentence couldn't be used).

Tbh I'd like to see prison sentences for major polluters rather than protesters.

No one forced them to do it and no one knows the situation of the people inconvenienced

It was 'my thoughts and actions override everyone elses' selfish no matter what label stick on it

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 08:20

The part about the "assault on the right of juries to deliberate according to their conscience" is because the judge told the jury that they were not allowed to be influenced by the fact that climate change is real, happening and affected by our reliance on oil.

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 08:21

It was 'my thoughts and actions override everyone elses' selfish no matter what label stick on it

And that's worth 5 years in jail?

skyeisthelimit · 19/07/2024 08:24

YANBU. If they won’t stop then they need to be locked away.

Boomer55 · 19/07/2024 08:25

Yes, these idiot protestors are a bloody nuisance. People were missing hospital appointments, funerals, work, school - and what for?🤷‍♀️

Hopefully, it’ll stop some of this now.

Alexandra2001 · 19/07/2024 08:29

Boomer55 · 19/07/2024 08:25

Yes, these idiot protestors are a bloody nuisance. People were missing hospital appointments, funerals, work, school - and what for?🤷‍♀️

Hopefully, it’ll stop some of this now.

Edited

Patients had appointments cancelled/missed during recent strike action by Doctors, Nurses, Train drivers... do you think they should all be locked away too?

Brefugee · 19/07/2024 08:29

have you ever spent time, @Boomer55 and others, in a totalitarian state where protest is not allowed? i have.

You should try it some time, people live in actual fear.

Grumpy12345 · 19/07/2024 08:32

Dibbydoos · 18/07/2024 20:54

You are complerely unreasonable. Theyre failing to keep rapists in prison because of over crowding but puttting protesters in prison and you think the sentencing is ok?!

Wake up. They are protesting for your health your children and grand childrens lives. The judge needs waking up too 🤬

Sure they caused chaos and, no, I'm not a member nor do I think their tactics work, but I know their hearts are in the right place. Thank God we have a government that now agrees with them on licensing.

Think suffragettes and what they did to get women the vote.

But the suffragettes couldn’t vote which means they had no other option. These protestors can vote for the Green Party if they are so bothered about climate change, they don’t get to stop ambulances etc just because they think their opinion on climate change is more important than anyone else’s. If enough other people agreed with them then the Green Party would have more than 4 MP’s. The fact is most people don’t agree with them and we live in a democratic society which means they should not be allowed to force what they want through undemocratic means.

Grumpy12345 · 19/07/2024 08:35

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 07:32

How do you 'lobby' MPs?

MPs are regularly being informed on the science of climate change, but they aren't listening.

Vote Green Party then 🤷‍♀️

Lopine · 19/07/2024 08:36

Edingril · 19/07/2024 08:20

No one forced them to do it and no one knows the situation of the people inconvenienced

It was 'my thoughts and actions override everyone elses' selfish no matter what label stick on it

You have no idea how serious the climate situation is have you?

LadyCrumpet · 19/07/2024 08:38

ForGreyKoala · 19/07/2024 05:33

Please tell me exactly how they are "saving the planet".

Exactly. All the traffic the cause is hardly good for the planet. Blocking up the M25 has to be one of the most ridiculous things to do if you are 'trying to save the planet'.

Fucking idiots.

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 08:39

Grumpy12345 · 19/07/2024 08:35

Vote Green Party then 🤷‍♀️

I do. Of course.

LadyCrumpet · 19/07/2024 08:44

SD1978 · 19/07/2024 07:58

I'm glad they have finally started to receive a punishment for their actions. These predominantly middle class privileged wankers, could use their money and positions to try and encourage real change, but instead disrupt the day of thousands of average people. You're not teaching me anything, I'm never going to listen to or support your cause. Finally fuck around and find out has the right consequence. I look forward to May, many more overprivileged arseholes losing their right to travel and gaining a criminal record for disrupting thousands of lives- as they all should

Absolutely this.

Donotneedit · 19/07/2024 08:44

I guess all you haters of disruptive protest also condemn the suffragettes 🤦‍♀️

SouthPotty · 19/07/2024 08:44

While I'm not sure if the sentences were entirely appropriate for the actions of those people, I think that something like that had to happen. I agree with the judge who said that they'd crossed the line from activists to fanatics. To blinkered fanatics, I'd add.

The thing is that most of the UK population entirely agrees with their cause - something needs to be done. We are seeing the effects of global warming etc. People on this thread throwing about pompous exhortations for action in support of the five are similarly disconnected from reality - people in the UK are already "doing something".

And they're being punished by JSO not doing enough - because this is what their actions amount to. Punishment of the small people. Not the pollutants, not the government, not companies that actually matter.

And because in the eyes of JSO "nothing is being done", it's more than likely that their actions will escalate. This is what the judge's comment means - they've already left behind any peaceful protests. A peaceful protest is sitting outside of the gates of a factory chugging out tons of toxic smoke or gathering hundreds of supporters and organising a march in a city centre - disruptive, yes, but only either affecting those who actually pollute or clearly focused on getting as much attention on the cause as possible IN A PEACEFUL WAY.

Moving on to pure disruption for disruption sake is a big step for an activist organisation. It redefines their core principles and shifts them onto another plane - because JSO have decided that their activities don't work, they need to escalate - whatever they say and however many times they repeat that it was peaceful protesting, it wasn't, was it? What needs to happen before it stops being peaceful? Someone dies? Ekhmmm....

I think that sentencing had to happen - again, I agree it may be too harsh but it's there because of the context, not because it was such a heinous act - it wasn't. But the judge noticed that JSO had clearly started on the route to ecoterrorism. The five's point wasn't to bring their cause to the attention of millions, it was solely to cause disruption, to punish stupid people, with complete disregard to people's wellbeing and life.

If they were let go with a slap on the wrist, their next action would be even more spectacular. And all those laughing at those idiots daring to put their livelihood or hospital visits over the Cause, might change tack if it's their mother denied a lifesaving operation or their child unable to get a heart transplant or just take their exams, or their house gets robbed in a continuing blackout because of a "peaceful protest" disrupting a power plant operation, government networks, or some other lifeline services deemed a worthy target by JSO..

Grumpy12345 · 19/07/2024 08:49

Collexifon · 19/07/2024 08:39

I do. Of course.

And the reason mp’s aren’t listening is because most people don’t vote Green. That’s called democracy 🤷‍♀️

Grumpy12345 · 19/07/2024 08:50

Donotneedit · 19/07/2024 08:44

I guess all you haters of disruptive protest also condemn the suffragettes 🤦‍♀️

No. The suffragettes did not have the option to vote. Not comparable at all.

Edingril · 19/07/2024 08:52

Donotneedit · 19/07/2024 08:44

I guess all you haters of disruptive protest also condemn the suffragettes 🤦‍♀️

Anyone who throws themselves in front of a horse or does anything else illegal or what I would consider crossing a line into morally wrong will never get my vote

Using 'but I am Protesting' is not an excuse for trouble and the suffragettes were not saints themselves, being female does not exempt them from taking responsibility for their actions

Swipe left for the next trending thread