Why not just lift the 2 child benefit cap for kids already born?r kids whr

[malificent7]

But not for future kids to act as a deterrant? Just an idea

Sorry for typos in title...bloody phone.

Weren’t those kids born after the 2 child limit came into force? Might be wrong but that’s my understanding.

They tried that it didn't work, there are no less 3 plus families. People are not having extra children for benefits.

The op mean kids born post April 2017 to now.

I don't agree with the 2 child cap per se but it was announced well over 9 months before it came into effect in 2017..so they basically did what you're suggesting already, just about 8 years ago to allow any children already conceived this grace period

This is exactly how it was set up when it was introduced in 2017. So anyone who's had more than 2 kids in the last 7 years should have been aware of it and made decisions then on whether they could afford to have more children.

They already did this. There was over a year's notice that the 2 child limit was coming - it was announced in 2015 and didn't come into effect until 2017 and only applied to children born after 6 April 2017.

The limit wasn't brought in overnight so people had plenty of warning if they had a third, there would be no benefits. I don't know how I feel about the cap. We don't earn a lot but have never been entitled to any state support. I think I'd rather see employers paying enough wages to fully support families without the state propping them up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87rp0xr3ydo#:~:text=The%20cap%2C%20which%20came%20into,supporting%20themselves%20solely%20through%20work%22.

It was announced in 2015!

As others have said, you had a grace period when it was introduced, there is no need for another one. Everyone since has knowingly had further children, or not had further children, knowing they wouldn't be state funded. I don't disagree with this.

Do people really think child benefit is such a huge amount of money that someone would actually have a third to get it?

Child benefit is not capped at two. The cap is in relation to other benefits.

AHH that makes a lot more sense. I've never understood the cap, the benefits system is a total minefield.

Because it is a stupid cruel policy that punishes children for the decisions of their parents…

And it is not a deterrent unless you want people in general to fear having more than 2 kids - anyone can fall on hard times even if they were once high earners easily capable of sustaining a large family.

it is not a deterrent unless you want people in general to fear having more than 2 kids - anyone can fall on hard times even if they were once high earners easily capable of sustaining a large family.

Its exactly what they want

Well it's the parents punishing the children surely? Why put the blame on everyone else? Start shaming feckless parents and things might change. Kids are expensive, if you want 3+ you need to be prepared for all eventualities. Not being able to afford the number of children you want certainly is a deterrent, it happens all the time. People can't afford another child so they don't have them even though they wanted them. Having more than two is a luxury.

If it wouldn't be an absolute admin nightmare then I'd suggest it would be fairest to only apply the two child cap if the third child is born after the application is submitted for benefits, unless there is a later chance of circumstances eg a parent becomes disabled. So, essentially, your "cap" is however many kids you had when you first applied unless there is a later change of other circumstances. But that'll never happen

Because there isn't enough money to just find billions of pounds.

As said on similar threads, for children born after 06/04/2017, the child element in Universal credit is currently £287.92 per month (£3433.04 per year) for each of the first two children. For the first child born before that date the amount is £333.33 per month (£3999.96 per year).

For information, if a child is disabled they they will receive an additional amount of £156.11 or £487.58 if severely disabled. The etwo child limit does not apply to these disability payments.

So, if the two child limit was lifted, if a family on UC, would gain £3433.03 a year for an extra child, £6866.06 for an extra two children and £10,299.09 for an extra three children, if the overall benefit cap was also lifted.

But if a single parent or family earn just £1 above the threshold for claiming UC, tHey will not be able to go to the stare or their employer and ask for thses tax free payments, because they have more than two children.

So there needs to be a better way than to say that those on UC can have what those just earning that little too much to get benefits can't have.

As others have said, thereneeds to be other support given, breakfast clubs at school, food vouchers, clothing vouchers, budgeting skills, etc.

Otherwise, those currently working and not claiming UC, will give up work or reduce their hours so that they can get UC and have the amount of children they really want, funded by the state, rather than just those they can afford by hard work.

No . I saw some eejit woman on the news saying it should be easier for her to get benefits , it's her lifestyle choice to have 4 kids and we the taxpayer should help her .
Just no , , if you can't afford to pay for your own kids then don't have them .

It's sad to think about children in poverty in any respect but I do feel especially sad for parents who's circumstances change dramatically in this situation.
Say you've had 5 kids, both high earners, one parent can no longer work due to illness and the other needs to become a carer for their partner, that kind of situation. Where nobody expected to have to rely on welfare. That must be atrocious, especially if life Insurances find loopholes and you've a massive mortgage and debts etc.

I personally don't agree with the cap to benefits, children shouldn't be going hungry because of their parents choices.

It's very simple to me, we don't punish children for being born to poor parents.

I think when we consider the money that the government have pissed up the wall or used to line the pockets of their friends (remember that phone alert bullshit scam they pulled or the PPE scam over covid?) And all the other underhanded ways they've ripped us off, we can afford to make sure kiddos aren't starving.

Just basic humanity to not starve kids imo but hey ho, what do the plebs know?

It was someone with six kids I saw moaning on the TV the other day!

Children shouldn’t be punished because of parents choices, the cap should have never come in to play.

Well, agreed. It's never the child's fault-as I repeat to my right wing neighbours. I don't know how you focus the benefits on the child though, without stigma like free school lunches.
All the parents I worked with had the number of children they could afford and chose to limit their family size because of that. Many had life insurance and critical illness cover too. I would have loved a bigger family. I couldn't afford it.

A lot of schools now don't take cash, all pupils have cards they use to buy lunches on so nobody knows if they're free dinners or not.

I know families who have repeatedly had children they not only can't afford but also cant look after and I doubt with all sincerity that even with an additional few hundred a month that money would really go on the kids clothing/food/enriching their lives and giving them experiences such as days out etc.
But some children sadly will always be born into selfish and negligent families with no desires to meet an acceptable standard of care for their children. It's just how life is. Is it fair that those families get money to waste on drugs/alcohol/latest gaming consoles whilst their poor dc have next to fuck all? Absolutely not.
But the actions of selfish individuals shouldn't be a reason we stop providing for those who will use the money to better the lives of their children.

Sure it's frustrating some people abuse systems designed to support those in need but we can't punish the majority because of a minority.

Society should in my opinion always care for its most vulnerable and children really are so vulnerable x