Husband secretly messaging friend

[Lili10]

Please tell me - AIBU

when we got together, almost 7 years ago, my husband was super insecure. He'd come out of a bad relationship and had trust issues so struggled A LOT with my male friends and me going out by myself. I took the approach of I loved him and wanted to help him gain confidence and so reassured him a lot, went out less and was very supportive / open about my male friends (there were not many and not close friends) but gradually these fell away and gradually I stopped going out without him.

My husband recently had a birthday. He showed me a message from a female friend but it was in German (his language) and told me it was just a general catch up message with happy birthday and, because he wanted to be open, there was nothing to worry about.

I thought that was all weird (too much reassurance when it wasn't needed) so a few weeks later I google translated the messages.

He'd messaged her talking about a what if moment about when they'd nearly gone out and imagine what would have happened and did she ever think about it. She messaged back saying stuff would definitely have happened. She asked if he'd be sunbathing nude on holiday etc

For context, they are both married with kids. our marriage is not going well. We have a 4 year old and he's not exactly enjoying family life (he doesn't do a lot with him) and is often complaining my main focus is our DS. Whilst I do try to give DH attention (date nights, sex 3x p/w etc) our DS does need attention and I am pretty much the only person looking after him.

Am I right to feel annoyed with the hypocrisy and like this is the first step to cheating? I am at the moment furious and need some rationalisation I think.

Or am I being insecure and need to focus on him a bit more?

I don't mind him having female friends, but he doesn't mention me in any messages, there's no suggestion of us meeting up all together so we can be couple mates so this all feels secret and like he's a massive hypocrite.

Yeah the lying is a dealbreaker for me. As is the flipping it around on you, calling you mad, etc, then bringing up your male friends to take the attention off his (genuinely) shady behavior.

he’ll only get worse- once they show this tactic, they’re showing you how low they will go.

I hope you escape.

Hi, OP, hope you are coping as best you can. I think you need some suggestions from @AcrossthePond55 and @TheShellBeach who always give sound advice.

@Lili10

If I was giving me advice I think, which is why I asked, this is big red flag beating me on the head (I've ignored or missed the other ones) and I think I need to prepare to leave. It's not the messages, I think it's the lie and that he's demanding different things of me

So, I believe in listening to yourself. It seems to me that you're pretty dissatisfied with your marriage 'status quo' as it is. This incident is just adding fuel to an already slow burning fire.

You aren't happy that he's sent an inappropriate message to a female friend. You aren't happy that he isn't 'into' family life. You aren't happy that he's plunked you down in a country where you don't speak the language. You aren't happy that you've been isolated from your own friends and family. I'd say that's quite enough 'not happy' to be going on with.

The most important thing to remember is that a person is entitled to leave a marriage for any reason, at any time. So if you are not happy, leave. It's OK. You need no more reasons than the ones you already have.

Yes, I understand that when there is a child involved it complicates things. But the simple fact of having a child doesn't mean you need to sacrifice your happiness. He's not an interested father, staying around isn't going to change that. And eventually your child will realize that they aren't important to their father and that is damaging in and of itself. If or when the time comes that he does want to be an interested father, that can be managed. But cross that bridge when (if) you come to it.

Listen, you don't need to pack a bag and leave tomorrow. You need a careful, well thought out plan. Friends and family spread out? Think about your relationship with them, how much help they may be able to give you (a place to stay, emotional support, etc) and the job market and housing in their area. Make a practical decision based on practical things, rather than trying to focus on 'the area I like best'. If the job market & housing costs are better in a certain place, go there. The point is to get home, you can always move again later.

And if you feel he's isolated you from friends and family, reach out to them. They've probably been hoping you'll call. You may have to hear "I told you so" a few times but it will be well worth it.

Above all SAY NOTHING TO HIM. Continue on as you have been doing, raise no suspicions, drop the issue of the message. If you are leaving (totally your decision) then that message and everything about him is now irrelevant. The point is to leave, not to give him a jolt and hope he changes (he won't). Make your plans quietly, then execute them. Inform him only when you're ready to walk out the door.

It is imperative that you get a solicitor as soon as you leave, if not before. I'm assuming your child was born in the UK so is a UK citizen. Your situation could be complicated by the Hague Convention if he decides (or is pressured by his family) that he needs to be (or fake being) 'Father of the Year'.

This is good advice except I wouldn't tell him you're leaving. He may try to stop you, and you need to get your child into the UK.

OP, please please get legal advice before doing anything. I know someone who just 'left' a Hague Convention country with her child and she suffered bad consequences. You are far better playing a longer game and getting him to agree to it. But find a good immigration lawyer and get decent advice.

So the follow up question has to be how long are you prepared to wait?

He doesn’t bother much with your child and he’s flirting with someone else. When you raise your concern he tries to turn it back on you.

You’re right to be angry.

The child was born in the UK and won’t yet be at school in Germany - does that make a difference?

The child has lived longer in the UK as he is 4 and they moved to Germany 18 months ago.

It sounds like he has checked out of your relationship a long time ago. It doesn't take 4 YEARS to 'get on board with being a parent'... it sounds like he has no interest in being a parent and never will.

He may have no intentions of having an affair with this female friend. But the lying to you, the nature of the conversation... all adds up to him being more than willing to have an affair or even jump ship entirely should a suitably better offer come along, her or anyone really.

Sort out your shit, and leave him and live the life you and your child deserve, because pandering to this piss-ferret isn't it!

I speak fluent German. If you want me to translate the messages let me know. Google translate can be a bit odd sometimes.

Forgive me for being cynical. Hes a bloke so dont let him out your sight. If he needs to go somewhere GO WITH HIM. Never let him go out unattended. Family life needs nurturing. All women need to do this. Do like Linda mccartney.

Thing is : you cant really leave someone when youve got a kid. The sπ|t continues on a different form. Parental alienation for one.

No no no. That's called marriage policing and all it does is create terrible stress. If you feel you can't trust a man it's time to leave him. They figure out a way to cheat no matter what you do anyway. My ex did it on his lunch hour at work.
Family life needs nurturing by both partners. Otherwise it does not work.

Except do this mentally and don't write any of it down

What happened?

There were charges threatened which would have meant her immigration status would have been a problem (could have been denied residency) and she couldn't have stayed in the same country as her child.

In the end the child was returned to the father and she wasn't allowed to take the child for even holidays to her home country. That was the 'lucky' version after months of agony and worry.

What a controlling hypocrite. And a truly shit father to boot.

Go back to the UK. Take your son. Make your own place there.

"Whilst I do try to give DH attention (date nights, sex 3x p/w etc)"

And what effort is he making for you? You say he isn't actively involved with caring for his child, and now he's moved you away from all your support network, isolated by not speaking the language, dependent on him financially. This is a controlling behaviour tick list. But, this line jumped out at me, are you having sex with him "3x p/w" because you want to have sex, or is it to keep him happy? There's a lot going on here that's making me uncomfortable, and I think you know it's not ok really. This is not a healthy relationship, and he's not a good man.

Hi op - just be careful when you tell him you are going to leave him. He’s had control over you for years. I’d also not think of where you move to being based on his ability to see his son - hes not been much of a father yet by the sounds of it. Focus on yourself.

It's the hypocrisy.
He should be giving energy to you.
He should be giving energy to your child.
Not random!
Younneed to focus on you too. Go out by yourself and leave hi. With DC.
Reading the rest of your posts, I hope you can survive the holiday (understandably not breezy).
Even if spread out you'll know the one person who will help you, use that as your anchor point.
You got this. I'm sorry this is happening but it's better to know than to not. Whatever happens you'll make it out the other side and be ok.
Sending strength x

DO NOT remove your child from the country without legal advice. You may have an argument about the UK being his country of residence but it is not as straight forward as length of time. If he is in pre school that strengthens the case for Germany. Your husband may not have much interest in the child but considering his controlling nature he will probably try to use him to at least force you to stay in the country. Get legal advice but do it quickly the longer you live there the harder it gets to leave with him.

He’s showing you who he is. You don’t love him. You love the him you thought he was. Except he wasn’t that person. It was a mask to get you hooked.
The controls and behaviours and expectations, like isolating are slow so you are in the net without realising how you got there.

The frog in a pot. …put a frog in a pan of hot water it will jump straight back out. Put it in a pan of cold water then heat the water slowly. Then eventually crank it up. By the time frog starts to realise it’s in trouble it’s too late ..it’s cooking. No way out.

He won’t get better. He will get worse. IMO and in my experience. I foolishly fell for it 3 times. Messed myself up big time. They get very good at their art. Predators after prey. The lucky ones they keep as girlfriends, the best ones, they marry. Lying, projecting, gaslighting, tell you you’re crazy if you call them out on anything, you’re mentally ill, need help. You are TheOne and how could you possibly think poor innocent them would ever do anything heinous? It’s a game to them. They need to get away with cheating and lying to feel powerful and in control. Superior to poor stupid wifey.
The man you fell for does not exist ..Jekyll and Hyde, but Jekyll is actually worse than Hyde because he is the deceiver that tricked you in the first place. Hyde is the real man and they are misogynistic. Use women but secretly despise them.

I agree with others you need a plan to get out, see a lawyer and don’t tell husband. These men are very dangerous if they think they are going to lose control. Read up on narcissism

Classic manipulator.

He pulled the old truck of 'woe is me, I've been so hurt that unless you drop all of your male friends, I'm never going to believe that you love me!'

That gives him the green light to do what he likes behind your back because if he's caught he can whip out the old, 'but you know how much I was hurt, I'd never do that to you!'

He's horrible. What a shame you have a child with him.

Protests your friendships & uses your good nature to isolate you from them.
Crosses lines of fidelity with his own friends. Lies to you.

What a shocker.

He is not a good man, you can do better

I have naively just been waiting for him to get on board with being a dad and covering everything whilst he does.

Your son is 4, not 4 months. He's not going to change.