Private school fees - act now for SEND!

[BellesAndGraces]

The King’s Speech is scheduled for this Wednesday (17th July) and it will be followed by 4 days of debating Labour’s proposed legislation in Parliament, including the introduction of VAT on private school fees.

If you have a child with special educational needs or a disability and send them to a private school because your local state school was unable to meet their needs but do not have an EHCP I would strongly suggest that you write to your MP and tell them why you send your child to a private school and how the charging of VAT on private school fees will affect you. Ask your MP to stand up in Parliament and ask the government whether it is willing to expand the exception they have agreed to make for children with EHCPs to cover all children who attend private school in order to meet their SEND. If you share your story and circumstances with your MP you will be providing them with a case study they can refer to in Parliament about how charging VAT on private school fees will affect those of their constituents who are already dealing with the challenges that having a child with SEND can bring.

You can find out who your MP is and their email address here: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

You have misunderstood. By ‘for some’ I meant for some pupils. Not some schools. For some pupils, no state school will be able to meet their needs. For some pupils, no school at all will be appropriate.

However, some schools can provide small class sizes, specialist SpLD tutor on-site, onsite SALT…

@DarkM3l0n
I can assure you that we have explored all options available to us in the state sector.
Do you actually have much experience of ASD? What you may not consider chaotic is experienced very differently by my DC. They need a small, calm nurturing environment. Not a class of 30 children, many of whom have there own significant Sen/ behavioural needs.

😂

For some DC, all schools are chaotic enough to mean they are so overwhelmed their needs can’t be met.

For some DC, all state schools are large enough and busy enough to mean DC are so overwhelmed their needs can’t be met.

Yes all my dc have an ASC and ADHD dual diagnosis. All severely impacted.As do I and as do their cousins. We were/are all state educated in classes of 30.

Absolutely @Grasshopper7 completely understand what you mean.

We need to encourage all the alternative provision - the online schools, the online/in person hybrids, the specialist autism tutoring groups, the handful of schools (is it 1?) that specialise in autistic girls etc. There are more ideas out there.

The very last thing we need is everything being shoe horned into one size fits all state options that reduce parents trying to do what's best for their child.

There is a huge gap in state provision for pupils with autism who are academically able but need a particular type of sensory environment. A 1 to 1in mainstream doesnt work because they need small classes and a state special doesn't work because they don't offer the right curriculumn. There is a particular shortage of schools for girls with autism as a lot of special schools are built around a male presentation.

These pupils are often completely out of education as there are no state options. Some of these children are awarded an ehcp at an independent school If they fight for it. Other families realise that what their child needs is available privately and pay.

Obviously the right solution is the government builds a series of autism schools nationwide and there aren't children sat with zero education.

This isn't going too happen.

@DarkM3l0n and I'm glad that works for you and your family - we're not all the same are we? In fact we really are all very much needing different things in the SEN area.

And yet your posts are ignorant enough to think just because some can manage in state schools everyone can.

Forgive me for being cynical but I wonder if the govt has looked at the SEN costs, and decided that our kids aren't worth the investment.

I see really no investment in SEN from labour. No new ideas. If anyone is excited by any new labour SEN ideas then I'd love to know about them.

Yes I dont disagree with that however special school aside I don’t agree with local authorities diverting huge sums of money to private schools
for a few children at the expense of the rest. Schools should be supported to provide better provision for more. Isn’t that what the current focus is on in some areas? Schools being supported to provide better provision so not so many EHCPs are needed?

Have you seen any plans on how they'll do this? I don't think they can seriously improve 'mainstream' without diversifying school types personally but I hope you're right and they do have some ideas

That’s not about what DC actually need though. Or the law. It is about LAs saving money at all costs. State at all cost, leads to LAs acting even more unlawfully.

So you are happy for LAs to fund independent SS but not independent MS? Despite the former being significantly more expensive. And arguably having more problems, particularly safeguarding concerns. Despite independent MS often not being unreasonable public expenditure. Despite the alternative for many being more expensive provision rather than state MS.

SS deal with the highest need so of course they’re going to be more expensive. Children who attend absolutely can’t attend MS. The safe guarding issues are separate.

But those attending independent MS have been judged unable to have their needs met in state MS (i.e. “absolutely can’t attend [state] MS”) &/or it not be unreasonable public expenditure.

If you remove independent MS as an avenue, some of those will end up in independent SS instead. And some will end up with EOTAS, which I presume you also object to funding. Both of which will be significantly more expensive.

Just as an a point to note. You cant argue that your child would be better off in a smaller class as your right isn't to a better education or the best available education.

You can evidence that the education on offer is not adequete/suitable for the child's sen and the needs can most affordabley be met in a particular way.

Is it detrimental to the state sector for a child who isn’t really coping to be funded to go to an independent school? It may be in everyone’s best interest. If say you have 3 children with an EHCP in a class and one is funded to go to an independent school, does the state sector lose out? It may or may not be more expensive overall. Potentially there might be economies of scale from the state school catering to more children with special needs. But it might equally be that it is very difficult to manage the conflicting needs of the 3 children with EHCPs plus everyone else in a state school class even with a lot of extra support.

And can we really not afford to send a few children with SEN to private school if that’s the best option for the child? We’re not talking about Eton here. It’s a false economy to spend the minimum possible on children with SEN or force them to stay in an environment which they can barely cope with. It could be the difference between them staying at school long enough to get some qualifications, or their parents being able to work or them being independent as adults. The state would pay for very expensive medical care for a child who needs it - I don’t really see that paying for an appropriate education is fundamentally different given the effect it has on their future.,

I'm so sorry as I'm sure I should know this, but can you please just explain this:

"whether it is willing to expand the exception they have agreed to make for children with EHCPs to cover all children who attend private school in order to meet their SEND".

Has the government said that children with an EHCP attending a private school won't have to pay VAT on fees (assuming this comes in)?

@ThursdayTomorrow my grandson attends a London independent he has an ADHD diagnosis. They do lots of PE, basically all afternoon, which helps him cope. Granddaughter at the same school has ADD, small class size and more 1-1 helps. Also suitable for hearing impaired children.
Both grandkids are bright won’t affect stats.
Im sure there are lots of other examples of SEN that most independents can accommodate.

And state schools

There's plenty of threads on here from parents who have navigated the torturous EHCP process, secured a TA for their child's needs only to find that TA is then "shared" around the class to the detriment of their child. Often, given the shambolic state of things, they are used elsewhere in the school. They are also as a pp said, disproportionatly awarded to the "sharp elbowed" educated MC kids because the system is so convoluted and set up to put you off that less capable parents will simply give up and accept the first "no" they get.
Some posters seem insistent that the state provision works and meets needs despite glaring evidence to the contrary. If anyone can actually demonstrate evidence that THIS policy would actually fix state provision then I'd stop arguing against it. But so far no-one has.

80% of schools are rated good or above so shambolic schools is an unfair description.

Fill time 121s are rare and you have to have evidence to show that they are being used correctly and an EHCP is being followed correctly. They are not shared round classes, if an EHCP states an TA is only for the child in question and that child needs support at all times that is what happens. Many children don’t need or want to be shadowed and supported 24/7 and a TA working with a child with an EHCP learn to stand back and support other children alongside when appropriate IF that is appropriate on their EHCP. If a child has so much need a full time TA is stipulated for support in their EHCP very few teachers will use their TA elsewhere as the impact on the rest of the class would be huge.

I have a son with an EHCP so understand fighting for support. He attended state schools. From what I can see from this thread we are talking about children who can just about cope in state provision with larger class sizes but parents who can afford school fees are opting out for smaller class, lots of PE and so on. No problem with that but I don't have the energy to champion this cause too.

I was wondering too. Is the op’s expectation that fees will be lower for this group of students?

Has anyone communicated this?

@@EasternStandard
Labour have said during the election campaign that fees for pupils with ehcps will be exempt from VAT. They have not explained the mechanism. Initially it was assumed they meant that independent special schools who only take ehcp students would somehow be exempt from the VAT change. There are different categories of school, so for instance a section 41 school could expempted quite easily. However, not all children with ehcps in the private sector attend section 41 schools. It could be that LAs pay the VAT and then reclaim it. Noone knows.