Private school fees - act now for SEND!

[BellesAndGraces]

The King’s Speech is scheduled for this Wednesday (17th July) and it will be followed by 4 days of debating Labour’s proposed legislation in Parliament, including the introduction of VAT on private school fees.

If you have a child with special educational needs or a disability and send them to a private school because your local state school was unable to meet their needs but do not have an EHCP I would strongly suggest that you write to your MP and tell them why you send your child to a private school and how the charging of VAT on private school fees will affect you. Ask your MP to stand up in Parliament and ask the government whether it is willing to expand the exception they have agreed to make for children with EHCPs to cover all children who attend private school in order to meet their SEND. If you share your story and circumstances with your MP you will be providing them with a case study they can refer to in Parliament about how charging VAT on private school fees will affect those of their constituents who are already dealing with the challenges that having a child with SEND can bring.

You can find out who your MP is and their email address here: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

Why not just apply for an EHCP? If your child's needs can't be met in a mainstream state school and the LA agree the current school is suitable, then the fees would be paid.

No.

I won't write to my MP to object to a policy that supports tax breaks for the tiny amount of privileged few at the expense of the many.

Surely you can use your money more wisely and secure legal representation to secure an EHCP if one is warranted.

Nonsensical.

A proportionately tiny amount of people can afford lawyers to help secure the EHCP. What difference does it make if those with means use their money to pay fees, thus removing the burden of them from the state classroom, or to pay for a lawyer that achieves an EHCP and keeps them in state, adding to the overcrowded system? It's no fairer and gives a worse outcome overall. "Just" applying for an EHCP is an oxymoron. This thread is all over the place...are we arguing about practicalities or principles? If practicalities, then this policy is pointless and only does harm. If principles then there's some equally muddled thinking.

No.

I'm in favour of this policy as I'm opposed to private schools. I want to see it brought in and it was one of the reasons I voted Labour. I'm staggered at the amount of posts this topic has generated but it just goes to show how out of touch mumsnet is I suppose.

Oh it's very clear that only private school places paid for by locals authorities will be exempt from VAT - just as state boarding fees will be exempt. Labour are simply trying to exempt VAT for fees they are the payer for.

In general, wherever your dc are at school, everyone needs to keep a close eye on what labour is doing on SEN and at your local level as it affects your dc is the most effective thing to do surely...

Thank you to everyone who has read my post and written to their MP about this. Judging by the number of “thanks” I have received, my post was helpful to a lot of people who have decided to stay out of the bun fight in the thread (and I don’t blame them) but if that’s you please do write to your MP anyway.

So the children who really need the independent specialist provision and have an EHCP (likely funded by the LA) will be exempt. However the child who copes better in a small class size, more flexible but not specislist curriculum and does not have an EHCP will not be exempt and VAT is going to increase fees for this provision.

State schools cannot meet the needs of all DC p with SEN.

Fill time 121s are rare

No, they are not. This is what LAs and some schools would like parents to believe, though.

They are not shared round classes
If a child has so much need a full time TA is stipulated for support in their EHCP very few teachers will use their TA elsewhere

Unfortunately, sometimes they are. Which is why parents have to look at enforcement action.

I agree with @BellesAndGraces I did exchange several emails with our local labour candidate who is now elected and it's even more important now to contact your MPs and MSPs, wherever your dc are at school:

Outside of the VAT policy there are council level funding issues that are huge and will very likely affect dc in special schools or MS state. Activism hugely needed from every parent for their kids.

This truants register has the potential to penalise anyone with a dc with EBSA for example.

Perhaps it shows how many people are fortunate enough to have NT, confident, bright kids who thrive in a leafy MC comp and can't see why anyone would need to access private. A lot of the kids we are talking about here, mine included, would not qualify for EHCP because their needs are not acute, but they could not cope in the 1200 pupil comprehensive that was not well managed, in a challenging catchment (all other schools full before you ask why I didn't just move them).

If you could cut every state comp in half, but maintain staffing levels (ie double the number of teachers), have a much more robust discipline system so bullies that physically and verbally abuse vulnerable kids can be quickly dealt with and / or removed, allow a more flexible and bespoke curriculum with a permanently staffed and well resourced learning centre for students to go to in lieu of whichever timetabled class is not the right fit for them, eg languages, provide safe, indoor, staffed spaces at break and lunch so vulnerable kids feel safe and seen, provide 100+ extra curricular clubs, activities and trips then you'd be approaching the provision the private school gives my kids. Its not a rich school, its far far from Eton. Quite shabby in some ways, but the fees cover all of the above. And I drive myself into debt to pay for it. But yes lets abolish it and throw kids like mine back into the bear pit. Fix the bloody bear pit first then by all means - I'd love not to be remortgaging my house every few years to stay afloat but until the state system is fixed, the private one is needed and yes its awful that lots of kids like mine are suffering still but THIS POLICY WILL NOT SOLVE THAT.

And yes in isolation 1000bn looks like a big number, in reality every penny is currently accounted for because running a country is really expensive and we spent on more than just NHS/schools/social care.

The fact councils are bankrupting themselves to fund SEN shows they are prioritising disabled children, doesn’t it? It’s services like bin collection which are being scaled down to afford the social care bills.

The elephant in the room is the increase in children needing support. This could be down to the lack of early years provision (thanks Tories) and a growing population generally, but the rise has been so dramatic and so recent (basically in the last 5 years) that most professionals agree there’s something else going on (but that ‘something else’ is anyone’s guess).

We don’t have the money to keep increasing and increasing the SEN budget, not without depriving other much needed services of funding.

There is no answer sadly. Angela Rayner (who herself has a SEN child) has said as much - there’s nothing to done, bar try to use the money already allocated as wisely as possible.

Lobbying your MP etc will not make a difference. In my view charging VAT for any child with special needs is a huge own goal.

When you say copes better @redwinechocolateandsnacks - that's the problem with getting SEN provision right isn't it - you can quickly make children non functioning, disengaged from life, traumatised and mentally ill when provision isn't working.

You are free to write to your mp about anything that concerns you.

Look I’ll post a link to the documentary with the Angela Rayner interview. She has a SEN child herself, I don’t believe she wouldn’t increase the funding unless she absolutely couldn’t. Parents need to act on this basis rather than assuming enough lobbying will reform the system.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001xgql

Do you have an NT child in a decent state school?

Some parents will not have that and will be feeling stressed for other reasons

Because private education is morally indefensible. There is no justification on earth for some children getting superior education to others just because their parents are more wealthy. It is a luxury, purchased by parents for their children and if you buy a luxury you pay VAT. I'm only sorry that it can't be backdated.

I agree that it's clear there is no big plan for education or sen education and no big funding coming in educations direction.

I'm totally at the mercy of the state we cant afford fees. I will continue to fight for better state education for all as I believe some things can be improved within similar budgets.

But unlike others, I am thrilled some people have managed to pay their way out the mess and am more than happy with those people writing to their MP to highlight the issue.

Even if you believe there's no more money for SEN. you still need to engage at a local level in conversations about where the money is spent, additional funding is only one aspect of this debate.

Absolutely @Frowningprovidence and honestly, it looks to me as though we're looking at cuts to SEN funding and that's where the debate is at so if anyone does have good provision they want to keep a close eye.

My experience has been that the council can announce cuts with very small lead times year to year.

What if it's not superior. Just different?

People assume that the state pays for a Fiesta and people are buying Rolls Royce.

What if the state is paying for a fiesta but your child needs a canoe because their journey is across water not land.

I have NT kids who have thrived in the state sector.
I would be happy for SEN kids in the private sector across the board to be VAT exempt. I do not see them as competition to my own DC! Far from it, if some parents invest in their DCs education who need more attention/smaller class sizes/more nurture, then in 10-20 years time we all benefit. Education is a social good and benefits the tax payer as a whole in the future. Attacking education in any shape or form, is a social harm. Especially if it affects vulnerable & disabled children.

SEN in this country at the moment is incredibly embarrassing and in crisis. There are far too many kids stuck at home and their needs not met and we also have a child and teen mental health crisis on our hands.
How is it OK that some people have the council paying out 70k for their DC per annum and other people with kids with the same level of need get nothing and have to home school? How common is that? On the ground, it is not fair at all! It is the usual postcode lottery.

No. I have children with additional needs with EHCPs in good state schools.

This is a good analogy. And also it’s not like education is “fair” for children with SEN. If you have a NT child at a good school which suits them well or even a child with SEN who fits in well at a mainstream school they are getting a superior education to a child with SEN who isn’t coping at that school.

There is a huge difference in provision between different schools and areas and it’s luck of the draw if some children get allocated to a school which suits their needs. If you are happy with your child’s state education and it is able to meet their needs that’s fine but it’s very unfair to then argue that children who aren’t getting their needs met in state should just stay there. Because the two children won’t end up in an equal position.

@HelenaWaiting
Is it morally indefensible for parents to use their time, knowledge and education to support their children or is it only when they use money that it’s wrong? Is it morally indefensible, say, for a parent who has worked with disabled children to use that knowledge to support their disabled DC even though other disabled children may not have that “advantage” and may do worse as a result. If I work to earn money to send my DC to private school how is that different to me giving up work to spend time supporting their needs myself? Just a moral issue with outsourcing.

@BibbleandSqwauk I agree with your post and am upset that parent like you are being punished. I already know if at least two small private schools in my country which will undoubtedly close because of this policy. At least 4 have closed over the last decade anyway. Choice has been removed. When I was growing up it was affordable for two parents on teacher salaries to send their kids to a little private school. i am so upset by the demonisation of private school parents and kids.

Many parents here who say they don’t have the wherewithal or funds to fight for an EHCP - an IPSEA elementary SEN law online course is £350. It will give you all the tools you need to ensure your child gets the support they need, via an EHCP. You are much less likely to need a lawyer (I didn’t end up needing one at all) if you have this basic training. It takes 10-20 hours to complete, depending on your speed/circumstances etc.

I’m an averagely intelligent person and I was able to complete the course easily and use all the information and case laws to compile a case against my LA that I won at tribunal. My son attends an Outstanding state special school which has staff with expertise and experience who all receive regular training. He couldn’t be in a better setting. But if a local private school had been better suited to him we would have pressed to have it named on EHCP.

Long term it will save you tens of thousands of pounds to secure a good EHCP and obtain placement on that basis. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s easier than trying to pay all the bills with ever increasing school fees.