Private school fees - act now for SEND!

[BellesAndGraces]

The King’s Speech is scheduled for this Wednesday (17th July) and it will be followed by 4 days of debating Labour’s proposed legislation in Parliament, including the introduction of VAT on private school fees.

If you have a child with special educational needs or a disability and send them to a private school because your local state school was unable to meet their needs but do not have an EHCP I would strongly suggest that you write to your MP and tell them why you send your child to a private school and how the charging of VAT on private school fees will affect you. Ask your MP to stand up in Parliament and ask the government whether it is willing to expand the exception they have agreed to make for children with EHCPs to cover all children who attend private school in order to meet their SEND. If you share your story and circumstances with your MP you will be providing them with a case study they can refer to in Parliament about how charging VAT on private school fees will affect those of their constituents who are already dealing with the challenges that having a child with SEND can bring.

You can find out who your MP is and their email address here: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

@Willyoujustbequiet - did you get to choose the state offering via the EHCP or did you move into the right catchment?

Where I live we have a few schools known for their excellent SEN departments. The vast majority of people are having to rent or buy in catchment and are not getting it specifically recognised in time. Especially where the SEN is discovered later, as it often is at the more high functioning end of autism, for example. As that is also the group very prone to mental health issues and burn out/crisis, we have to be careful as a society to tread carefully.

I really wouldn't know as I don't have NT kids.

I do have kids with SEN who have needs are significant enough to sail through the EHCP process without difficulty.

No they just attend the nearest one to us.

Catchment doesn't make any difference in many areas as its not the priority criteria.

I know the head of a private school. She says they won't pass on the costs to parents. Instead they will cut staff, not give pay rises, cut equipment budgets etc. You are probably going to be fine.

I got the EHCP (eventually) using tips from Mumsnet and my own research. I did pay a small amount to have the draft checked.

I do have a background in fundraising though.

It is mostly form filling.

The SEN Code 2014 is freely available online, and that's the relevant piece of law.

What is the benefit to the state system if more children who need support with or without an EHCP move into it?

On one of the other countless threads on this someone crunched the numbers and provided statistical evidence that showed it would actually work out at 1 extra child per school. I think it's a non issue.

Lots of schools where I am have surplus places. It may even be a positive.

I'm glad yours are sorted and in the right place but its not as simple as either NT and fine or high needs ND and fine with an easily gained EHCP. There are increasingly lots of kids who fall between those two ends who are coping in small, quiet, pastorally centred indie schools. They are the ones who will fall foul of this.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If you can’t afford a ‘quiet private school’ you have to get busy with perfecting that EHCP yourself. Outsourcing is a luxury. Cleaning houses is hard. Looking after kids is hard. Finding the right provision for a child with SEN is hard. Most of us can’t outsource that, we have to help our kids in-house.

Any child that qualifies for an EHCP should have one. The system for obtaining a good one is corrupt in so many ways and grossly unfair on all children with SEN. And their friends and classmates with no SEN. That isn’t any of their fault. The shitty system (thanks Tories) isn’t the parents’ fault either but it shouldn’t be something that parents don’t even think about doing, just because it’s hard.

Efforts should be concentrated on timely assessment, staff training (state and private schools) and overhauling that EHCP system. Staff training would be where I’d allocate a huge chunk of public money, but I’m no politician. These suggestions would benefit all children with SEN not just the ones whose parents can pay.

To be fair, the OP did ask parents who have children with SEND currently in independent schools to appeal to their MPs. She wasn't asking parents using the state sector to help continue any privilege or advantage for others. That would be crazy. But there's nothing wrong in people taking action to support their own families' interests. Everyone does it. Yes, hopefully people support the interests of those less fortunate too but that's another thread/subject.

I work in a non selective independent school with a reputation for catering well for those with SpLDs, ADHD and ASD. We have lots of pupils who are with us because their parents feel they weren't coping or wouldn't cope in state schools. On the one hand, yes, it's very true that they cope better with us. But, on the other hand, I can see why people reject the claim or get upset by it. Because it's just not an option for 90% of parents with children who have SEND, is it. So the vast majority of these children are still in mainstream schools and are coping because they have to. Some who have more severe needs end up out of education (which is indefensible) but the majority of those will not be the same children as those who are in mainstream private schools. The children we have with SEND are there because their parents can afford it. Are they thriving - yes. Would they be without a school if they had to go to state school - no. I think their parents should absolutely fight to be able to keep them where they are. But I don't think they can expect other parents not to feel aggrieved by it. There's a huge difference between children in specialist independent schools/the very small numbers paid for by the LA in mainstream independents and the large numbers of children with AN/SEN whose parents pay for mainstream independents because it's the better choice for them and they have that choice available to them. I can see why most people wouldn't want the second group to be exempted, especially given how high the numbers in that second group are.

I therefore find it hard to believe there are 100s of children at mainstream (not specialist) private schools who would qualify for EHCPs and their school willingly have them attend
The numbers must be tiny. We have 3 out of 300 with EHCPs and I'm fairly sure the parents of those 3 children still pay fees as they have been with us since they were tiny and long before they had an EHCP. They got the EHCPs so the children could have a funded 1:1, not so the school fees could be paid. And we're a non selective school. Many wouldn't take a child with an EHCP at all.

I would estimate at least 98% of children with EHCPs in the private sector are in specialist schools.

Someone asked what made it possible for children with ASD and ADHD to cope without 1:1 support in an indpendent school when they can't in a mainstream.

I suspect that most of the children we have where I work who have ADHD and ASD diagnoses would actually cope in mainstream but less successfully and less happily. Which is of course not what any parent wants but what most parents have no choice on. Someone else mentioned the 'buckets' thing and it's importance in keeping children from being overwhelmed. These are some examples of what we do to stop our SEND children's 'buckets' from overflowing:

1. We have a team of 5 SEND staff who are based in our Learning Hub. Partly this is for 1:1 and small group intervention lessons but, increasingly, its role is pastoral. It is open at break and lunchtimes and after school so that children can access the space and the staff to:

• talk over and calm down from anything that has upset them earlier in the day
• talk over and plan for anything they are worried about that is coming up later in the day
• get on with work (either independently or with help) that they have struggled to complete at the time they were supposed to
• get something to eat if the dining room is overwhelming, they didn't like the food on offer or didn't feel they could eat at the designated time
• have some quiet time, quiet social time or just chat to an adult
• have an indoor space to be themselves and do what they want to do.

2) The children and staff are all trained in zones of emotional regulation. All teachers use them and those children who they are most relevant to attend small groups based around regulating themselves and also on how to handle social interactions. 3) We have a full time nurse and a part time counsellor available to any child who needs it but they are especially instrumental in keeping lost of our SEND children going throughout the day. Plus about 10 additional staff who have the Mental Health First Aid qualification. 4) We have a well being centre and a well being garden which serve as staffed, quiet indoor and outdoor spaces that children can use at breaks and lunchtimes. They can do mindfulness activities or just rest or play quietly. 5) Children who are likely to need 'time outs' in lesson time have designated places and people to go to when they need to (usually the learning hub or the surgery). 6) We have Sport every day from age 7 as well as large amounts of open green space and woodland that the children can use. We have 2 outdoor classrooms and children have Outdoor Learning lessons and/or Forest School up to age 9. 7) We have dedicated lessons in Drama, Music, Dance, Art and DT taught by specialists in specialist rooms which give a lot of children who are not academic high flyers areas where they excel and can build their self esteem/confidence. 8) Our largest class size is 18 and the average is about 12-14. For the children under 7 the largest is 14. Up to Year 2 each class has a TA. Up to Year 5 each year has a TA. We have gap year students who also support. The 1:1s for children with EHCPs are not pulled for elsewhere. 9) Our library and outdoor library is staffed and available to use at break and lunchtimes as another place children can go if they want down time.

Genuinely, I have no idea how many of those things are available in the average primary/middle school (we are a prep so go from age 3 - 13). But, as you can see, it's not really educational provision. Teaching is teaching wherever your child gets it and, in may cases, the best teaching is in in the state schools. But, if there isn't the right set up to keep the child in the right frame of mind to be able to learn, then they won't be happy or able to learn. That's what small, nurturing independents can do for SEND children. In my opinion anyway.

I'm sure there will be examples of state schools that can and do provide all the above. But I doubt it can be the standard of care in a primary with 7 teachers for 7 classes of 30 children and a few desperately overstretched TAs.

We seem to be focusing this debate on high needs as if those with mild SEN can simply get on with it - the huge numbers of young adults on disability, not working, or in jails says otherwise though. Every child matters, and every parent needs to do their best to advocate for theirs.

I asked before - what would make the govt call a SEN emergency? There's no lever, it's absent. SEN spending is something they want to reduce as the system lacks quality and decent measurement of value add to outcomes and so is becoming regarded as a bottomless pit.

I'm fairly sure the parents of those 3 children still pay fees as they have been with us since they were tiny and long before they had an EHCP. They got the EHCPs so the children could have a funded 1:1, not so the school fees could be paid.

The problem with this is, unless the independent school is named in section I (and thus responsible for funding the fees and special educational provision), the LA does not have to fund the special educational provision. Sometimes some LAs will come to an arrangement whereby the parents pay the fees and the LA fund the SEP, but they don’t have to. They can and often do say the parents are making suitable alternative arrangements, thereby relieving them of their duty.

I would estimate at least 98% of children with EHCPs in the private sector are in specialist schools.

This isn’t the case. The latest statistics show, of DC with EHCPs, 4.5% are in specialist independent schools. 1.2% are in mainstream independent schools.

Brumtotherescue

Thank you, that's really interesting. I didn't know that. Maybe our parents are funding some or all of the 1:1s as well as the fees then, I don't know!

I have to confess I've never understood this "bitter" argument, in this context.

Why are:

those who don't wish to lobby their MPs on behalf of a very small segment of society who - up to this point - have been fortunate enough to be able to afford educational provision which is unavailable to 93% of the population "bitter",

whereas:

those who are angry that the provision from which they have benefited for many years may now only be available to those who are richer than them,

not?

We’re what, a week in?

Under Tories school funding has seen the worst crisis in education history, including closure of special schools. Add on reduction in all the support agencies such as childrens services, EdPsych, social workers, youth workers etc.

Intrigued what you think was an any way an adequate strategy previously?

My view was that OP didn't ask the general public to lobby their MP. They asked parents impacted by the proposed changes to do it. Specifically parents of children with sen who hadn't coped in their state school and moved to private.

It does feel a bit off/bitter to come and say 'no I won't lobby you are really rich' rather than just leave them to it.

If you are someone whose child has been failed in mainstream and who has paid for an alternative and you are saying 'no, I appreciate my good luck and am happy to pay more tax so i wont be lobbying' its fine to say so robustly. But otherwise people are railing against something they were never asked to do.

But this is a public messageboard (called AIBU!), and I don't see why those who say actually I think you should be lobbying for better provision for all SEND children, rather than a loophole which will benefit only a very small number, should be described as bitter. I don't think those who are disappointed that the provision they've made for their child that might* now be taken out of their reach should be described as bitter either. But can you not see how those with SEND kids who fall in the former category might see this thread as a little provocative?

*who knows, because as yet we don't know precisely how the legislation will be drafted, or how the schools will choose to deal with it...

i don’t think that is the point @Welshwabbit - it is absurd that some families with a SEN child have to now contribute towards my privileged state school NT kids?

What other example do we have of someone rejecting a free service and for the pleasure of doing so, then having to pay for another service plus a penalty uplift at 20 per cent for not accepting the free service? If the rejection of the free service was because it was not fit for purpose for the child in question, then surely the penalty is immoral?
And there is no other example worldwide of a country doing this to this extent and successfully so.

I would have thought it is surely a good idea to exempt all DC with SEN who wouldn’t thrive in state. If you look at other countries with very successful state systems that is what happens- vast majority of kids go state and do well unless they really need that extra help for which it becomes worth paying for (if the parents can). It is exactly what the private sector could do best, but may just need a bit more regulation? Or are people worried incentivising this will offload the liability on the state?
I don’t think the answer is clear cut either way.

Exempt ALL DC with SEN? Yeah that'll work 😂

I want all children with SEND to get good education - not just those with parents who are wealthy enough to pay for it.

So I wont be signing.

I don't @BarryCantSwim - I voted labour in the end but my main concern is that labour are going to close more special places to save money at council level. No defence of the pre election state of it! Just that vigilance is needed due to the funding crisis.

Because as pp pointed out, SEN is not really a united group of parents and children that govt particularly wants votes from.

I guess I just have a different view. My SEND journey has left me bitter. It's also left me fighting for better send provision for all children. I do lots in this area.

I'm just totally not fussed if those particular parents want to do this. Even though they aren't me and it doesn't affect me.

I'm still of the view that MPs hearing that some people felt that they couldn't get support for sen and felt forced to pay for it, might shine a light on the children who can't pay for it too. Because if an MP also thinks 'what about those children who can't pay' they are acknowledging the problem rather that saying 'state is fine, it's your choice to do this"

I still don't understand why so many posters can't seem to understand that we can lobby for more than one thing at a time. As a parent in the exact scenario the OP is on about, yes I will advocate for the best interests of my children, of course I will. However, I am also capable of lobbying for wider and wholesale change of the approach to SEN and CAMHS. My point, made repeatedly, is that this particular policy will not help solve the wider issue, not at all. If anyone can show me factual evidence as to how my children leaving their school and joining a mainstream will have a positive impact on the mainstream SEN, I'll listen. And please don't say its the sway or pressure I will somehow magically place on the governance of the state school or the LA. I'm very ordinary and certainly no more influential than the thousands of others parents already struggling with this.