To think that the state should offer single sex education as part of parental choice?

[KTheGrey]

Everyonesinvited.uk states as fact that there are three sexual assaults in primary schools reported to police every day (2016 figures), and that 9/10 girls had received unsolicited images (2021 from Ofsted). The Attainment 8 data analysis by gsa.uk (2019) shows an over 10% average higher point score by girls in girls' schools than by boys in boys' schools and over 20% higher average point score than all students in co-ed schools. A 2018 Queensland University study showed girls from single sex education emerged more confident. Many studies have shown they are more likely to engage with STEM at a higher level.

Should the state admit that it has failed in its primary duty of care in keeping girls safe, (as well as promoting every child's chances of getting their best results from school) and start providing single sex options to parents?

Actually anecdotal evidence is necessary for the formulation of hypotheses. It does not provide "proof" but that does not make it valueless.

So for every school there has to be 2 single sex schools and a mixed one?

So where will the land and money and teachers come from and all and and other staff?

I think the suggestion is school A remains mixed, school B becomes a girls school and school C becomes a boys school.
This would probably work OK in urban areas with multiple schools where choosing B rather than A might mean an extra few 100 meters or jumping on public transport for a couple of stops. However, the decline in single sex schools in both the state and independent sectors suggests that demand may not be there.
Where it falls apart are more rural areas where school catchments are 10+ miles. And by rural I'm not talking remote desolate outposts we live about 50 miles south of London and have 1 school and minimal public transport. My Dsis lives about an hours drive from London and her kids already have to catch a 7.40 bus to get to their nearest school.
As ever I suspect choice would be choice in cities and no choice for the rest of us.

Isn't there this option in northern Ireland where there is availability of separate boys and girls, catholic and protestant, grammar and secondary modern - that is eight schools in the town so far

Well no. What about a survey of parents to find out if they would like single sex options and then you would establish the appropriate proportion?

You can change schools from mixed to single sex and vice versa - it's usually done year by year. I went to an ex-boys school that had gone mixed 3 years earlier.

How big is the school? My sister went to one of those countryside schools, along with the rest of the valley - about 2000?

Well actually I think that may have done you a favour. But I have never understood why anybody is entitled to more attention than somebody else by reason of genetic destiny.

The one in our town is 9 forms per year, so roughly 9x30x5 so about 1400 years 7 to 11 plus sixth form.

Not all girls are ready at 11 to do that. My DD is autistic and that would be too much for her. A girls school suits her much better.

We could really do with more schools in our city anyway as the Secondaries are bursting at the seams!

Single sex classes perhaps in larger schools with many classes per year group ?

I don’t endorse single sex education. I was subjected to it and I think it was a negative experience.

That wouldn't eliminate the porn on school bus issue. Actually neither would separate boys /girls schools if they were next to each other like the ones my parents went to because they both at different end of the country got on mixed buses to go to school.

People don't seem to understand is boys are subjected to the problems created by the poorly behaved minority. My boys have often come home saying they couldn't learn a thing in lessons. Quite often that was just as much to do with girls talking as boys being disruptive.

This is an interesting thread. Most people seem to refer to single sex secondaries being desirable but the OP refers to primary schools.

I like single sex secondaries very much. One school had a diamond structure (boys and girls start out being taught together, are then separated and are taught together again from sixth form) and people were really cross when they got rid of it.

I do wonder how you would introduce single sex schools in areas where there are none. One option would be to say that, from the end of next year (say), all girls will move to school B and the boys in school B will move to school A. But this will be annoying if one school is an easier commute (or has a higher Ofsted).

Another would be to say that from next year, only boys will be admitted from year 7. A more gradual change.

Single sex primaries are more difficult if you have children of different sexes. Getting young children to different schools at the same time is hard work.

I'd have liked a single sex primary school. My dds primary school class was very boy heavy...it had a huge effect on the social side of school for her. When she started at her all girls secondary she told me it was so much easier to concentrate without boys mucking around.

Yes this is true. And when my ds started at secondary school, he came home absolutely horrified at things other boys had said or showed him on their phones. We have filters on our DC's mobiles but you can't control what the parents of their peers do. Unfortunately if you're a parent of a son, what can you do, they either go to a mixed school or a boys school...either way there's no escaping that. With my DD, I had the chance to spare her from those horrors so I took that chance.

I understand it because I only left the classroom 18 months ago. The government wants disruptive kids in schools in the hope of keeping them away from worse trouble. The education of other children is collateral damage.

One of the places good single sex schools for boys excel is accepting that they have to be kept moving for an hour or two every day. Mixed sex schools are frequently offering only two PE lessons a week and not enough teams. This is rubbish anyway, but really impacts boys directly.

Yes I agree. I think one of the biggest problems with boys behaviour is that it's really unnatural to expect teenage boys to sit still and be silent for the majority of the school day. Most of them are absolutely fizzing with energy. And when they are badly behaved the punishments involve more sitting still and being quiet. It's absolutely terrible.

This really is a behaviour issue, and I accept there is some behaviour from boys that must feel very intimidating and sexually frightening for girls.
My boys stopped even going to the loo at school because they hated the blatant vaping/ use of drugs/ boys sharing images.

They are not particularly sensible, just have boundaries and know right from wrong.
They attend by far the most high achieving middle class school in our city, with a very wealthy catchment area.

What I do think helps is they are incredibly sporty. Agree that boys do need a lot of PE and time outside.

I have never heard of a diamond structure. It seems a very good idea.

Yes, the classic shift from single sex to mixed is usually done year by year, so I assume the reverse process would also work.

And there would be pitched battle in terms of which school became boys and which became girls, because one would be bound to be "better" than the other - I guess the "worse" school would be assigned to the girls because they are "getting more out of it".

Who has made out that girls are perfect on this thread? It is not intellectually valid or useful to respond to things that haven't been said.

Although most boys and men are not rapists, rapists under UK law all come from the male section of the population.

And if you don't think women are better off not being raped I think you are being ridiculous.

i would be keen for my girls to go to our local selective girls school but not sure yet if I can afford it. There is most definitely still a market for it and I can’t see any of the local girls schools going co-ed whereas some of the boys schools have.

My eldest is still only in primary but the behaviour of some of the boys in her class has been appalling. She’s been hurt, had her lessons disrupted and generally gets annoyed she can’t learn. I would actively pick a secondary to avoid them tbh. Of course that is not all boys and she has some lovely friends but the level of aggression from a small group of them is worrying. It seems to be fairly well accepted that behaviour in schools has deteriorated. By worry is that if the level of aggression at 8 is already pretty bad, what some of those children will be like in the teens especially when then combined with potential access to porn etc. It has upset me so much that my daughter has less protection from aggression than I do as an adult given it’s so hard to expel at primary.

Thank @NancyJoan I couldn't have put it better.

I really hated having my bra strap pinged and no teacher would intervene because we would never have dreamt of complaining. Aaargh.

I'm not clued up on the statistics, but where I live the all girls' school is notorious for terrible mental health. I don't know anyone who left that school without at least one clinical diagnosis, mostly eating disorders but severe anxiety and depression are common as well. I had the option to attend, and while it would have been nice to have met my best friends a few years earlier than I did, I am incredibly glad I didn't attend for the sake of my own wellbeing.

(I'm not sure if the worst anecdote is the time a year group went on strike for pastoral care after the third person that year had been admitted to hospital, or the time an acquaintance of mine was denied in-school therapy because her parents- a huge part of the problem- were unwilling to pay the £50-per-week school counsellor's fee.)