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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the state should offer single sex education as part of parental choice?

277 replies

KTheGrey · 15/07/2024 13:14

Everyonesinvited.uk states as fact that there are three sexual assaults in primary schools reported to police every day (2016 figures), and that 9/10 girls had received unsolicited images (2021 from Ofsted). The Attainment 8 data analysis by gsa.uk (2019) shows an over 10% average higher point score by girls in girls' schools than by boys in boys' schools and over 20% higher average point score than all students in co-ed schools. A 2018 Queensland University study showed girls from single sex education emerged more confident. Many studies have shown they are more likely to engage with STEM at a higher level.

Should the state admit that it has failed in its primary duty of care in keeping girls safe, (as well as promoting every child's chances of getting their best results from school) and start providing single sex options to parents?

OP posts:
Corinthiana · 16/07/2024 19:13

Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot · 16/07/2024 19:11

Plus I wish they did do needlework and woodwork for all - so many people are unable to do simple repairs on either clothes or home.

Shouldn't parents teach them that? I never did needlework at school, my mum taught me how to sew on a button and do repairs!

DeeplyMovingExperience · 16/07/2024 19:15

Girls do far better in single sex schools. They are also safer.

SargeantSaltandPepper · 16/07/2024 19:27

Hoolahoophop · 15/07/2024 14:46

No.

Because it doesn't solve the problem it just delays it.

Better off teaching boys not to be abusive boys who turn into abusive men.

Unless you plan on segregating the sexes forever?

Completely agree. Crack down on the problems presented rather than avoiding them and worsening the problem by creating groups of young people who haven't worked with and spent time around the opposite sex. Unless we're talking about also having single sex universities and jobs it doesn't make any sense at all.

Certainly I found the boys who went to single sex schools much more sexist than those who didn't.

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2024 19:31

I give you Eton...

Runningupthecurtains · 16/07/2024 19:34

Corinthiana · 16/07/2024 19:13

Shouldn't parents teach them that? I never did needlework at school, my mum taught me how to sew on a button and do repairs!

Mine did a bit of both at primary level.
I don't really care if it's needlework for all or needlework for none the point is if there are boy schools and girls schools or boys streams and girls streams or boys classes and girls classes both sexes need to get the same opportunity not have regressive stereotypes thrust upon them.
It's love poetry and war poetry for all not one for girls and the other for boys.

Corinthiana · 16/07/2024 19:36

Runningupthecurtains · 16/07/2024 19:34

Mine did a bit of both at primary level.
I don't really care if it's needlework for all or needlework for none the point is if there are boy schools and girls schools or boys streams and girls streams or boys classes and girls classes both sexes need to get the same opportunity not have regressive stereotypes thrust upon them.
It's love poetry and war poetry for all not one for girls and the other for boys.

I agree. That's the point.

Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot · 16/07/2024 19:41

Corinthiana · 16/07/2024 19:13

Shouldn't parents teach them that? I never did needlework at school, my mum taught me how to sew on a button and do repairs!

Because many parents are not able to do these things - once it got round I could sew I was inundated with requests for buttons, hems, guide badges and repairs

Corinthiana · 16/07/2024 19:42

Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot · 16/07/2024 19:41

Because many parents are not able to do these things - once it got round I could sew I was inundated with requests for buttons, hems, guide badges and repairs

I think it's a really useful skill. Perhaps nowadays parents could look on YouTube for guidance about such practical matters.

SummerDays2020 · 16/07/2024 19:56

JusteanBiscuits · 16/07/2024 10:09

Don't most people have the option of single sex private schools if they want a specialist education for their child?

So, are you suggesting where each area (for example) currently has one primary school, they will now need three?

Not really, unless you're rich.

SummerDays2020 · 16/07/2024 19:59

Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot · 16/07/2024 19:41

Because many parents are not able to do these things - once it got round I could sew I was inundated with requests for buttons, hems, guide badges and repairs

I'm not able to sew. My parents didn't teach me and neither did school. I mean, I know the basics but I'm very bad at it and don't get the practice to get better!

My DD, though has learned to sew at school and is better than me. I'm really glad she learnt that at school. She has really enjoyed Textiles.

SummerDays2020 · 16/07/2024 20:08

CruCru · 16/07/2024 12:07

This is an interesting thread. Most people seem to refer to single sex secondaries being desirable but the OP refers to primary schools.

I like single sex secondaries very much. One school had a diamond structure (boys and girls start out being taught together, are then separated and are taught together again from sixth form) and people were really cross when they got rid of it.

I do wonder how you would introduce single sex schools in areas where there are none. One option would be to say that, from the end of next year (say), all girls will move to school B and the boys in school B will move to school A. But this will be annoying if one school is an easier commute (or has a higher Ofsted).

Another would be to say that from next year, only boys will be admitted from year 7. A more gradual change.

Single sex primaries are more difficult if you have children of different sexes. Getting young children to different schools at the same time is hard work.

I personally didn't see the need for single sex in Primary because my DD's Primary had good behaviour. It was all the fights and rowdy behaviour at the mixed Comps I wanted to avoid for my DD.

SummerDays2020 · 16/07/2024 20:10

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2024 14:44

There are loads of counsellors and pastoral staff in schools these days. Has been for ages.

And I haven't seen a school nurse for about 20 years!

School nurses still exist. They tend to work over a number of different schools.

SummerDays2020 · 16/07/2024 20:14

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2024 14:53

OP,you keep ignoring the elephant in the room that where single sex schools exist -which for most of the UK is in the private sector since most of us are not in NI where religious schools dominate choice, nor are we in grammar school areas , or London- many are going mixed sex due to dropping parental demand for/ interest in single sex education. All but two of the private schools in my area over a process of 20 years have gone from boarding to day schools and from single to mixed sex. The two single sex school that remain are a very expensive boys school with boarding and a girls' day school with falling rolls.

I think if one wanted a single sex state education where I live, you'd have to travel about 60 minute, more in rush hour.

I don' t think many other countries segregate sexes , do they? Certainly not ones that are known for high educational standards and a secular education system.

Most of the private schools are mixed in my city - just one girls school. But the single sex grammars and church schools are very much in demand.

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2024 20:16

But that's my point...most of the country doesn't have grammars.

luckylavender · 16/07/2024 20:19

Oh of course that's an excellent idea. Far more pressing than the fact we don't have enough teachers for key subjects. Or that lots of schools are crumbling.

SummerDays2020 · 16/07/2024 20:22

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2024 20:16

But that's my point...most of the country doesn't have grammars.

Yes, I know. What I'm saying is they're not all turning co-ed as there is no demand for single sex. There very much is.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 16/07/2024 20:24

I like the idea of dividing for some and core lessons but mixing for others

Corinthiana · 16/07/2024 20:28

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 16/07/2024 20:24

I like the idea of dividing for some and core lessons but mixing for others

Why? Why core?

KTheGrey · 16/07/2024 21:18

Runningupthecurtains · 16/07/2024 13:39

I'm not suggesting separate buses.
I haven't even said what I think about separate schools.

Only that I would want a solution that didn't make life a massive pita for those of us who don't have a choice of schools within easy reach. If our town school was made single sex tomorrow it would be a massive hassle for the other sex to get to an alternative so imposing this on us and calling it choice would be disingenuous.
It is the OP who cites girls being exposed to boys behaviour on school buses as a factor. Split schools wouldn't necessarily impact that.

Did I? Where was that?

OP posts:
Runningupthecurtains · 16/07/2024 21:23

KTheGrey · 16/07/2024 21:18

Did I? Where was that?

Sorry I meant a PP not you OP.

KTheGrey · 16/07/2024 21:26

Edingril · 16/07/2024 10:30

So for every school there has to be 2 single sex schools and a mixed one?

So where will the land and money and teachers come from and all and and other staff?

I am raising the idea that parents should have the choice. There won't be more children brought into existence by having single sex schools, so you don't need more schools. Anyway, there are going to be so many more teachers in a year's time we'll have to build new to give them something to do.

OP posts:
Runningupthecurtains · 16/07/2024 21:33

KTheGrey · 16/07/2024 21:26

I am raising the idea that parents should have the choice. There won't be more children brought into existence by having single sex schools, so you don't need more schools. Anyway, there are going to be so many more teachers in a year's time we'll have to build new to give them something to do.

If you don't have more schools you have to have longer journeys. I wouldn't want our option to attend a walkable to school removed and replaced with the next nearest one - 9 miles away without a minimum of free, reliable, dedicated school buses. Why should I have to stump up over a tenner a week in bus fares per child for unreliable public transport.

KTheGrey · 16/07/2024 21:34

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2024 19:33

Among teachers - anecdotally - Ireland is considered to have much higher educational standards than many parts of the UK.... as well as a higher proportion of single sex schools. Not necessarily causation but this article doesn't disprove it.

OP posts:
KTheGrey · 16/07/2024 21:39

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 16/07/2024 13:26

Well that then goes way beyond just schools.

If we’re separating public transport too then we’re heading into Taliban territory.

The Taliban is a militant group so strongly opposed to female education that they have banned it. I think you may be a bit mixed up.

OP posts: