Should Labour abolish the two child benefit cap?

[changefromhr]

In two minds about this. Yes for those who find themselves on benefits after having more than two children (job loss, divorce etc) but perhaps not for those who choose to have more than two children when they have never worked (disabled families excepted).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/11/uk-two-child-benefit-cap-affected-1-6-million-children-last-year-figures-show

What happens a lot is women have them when they're only teenagers or early 20s and their brain isn't even properly developed, they are still not properly grown up. Chances are you were raised well and didn't start out your adult life with a teenage pregnancy. Anyone who's 30 and hasn't had kids yet isn't going to go and have one and live on benefits

The community I suspect you are talking about has apparently the largest number of single parents of any community, yet they are ultra religious and don't believe in sex begore marriage. Unbelievable that authorities don't put two and two together on that one.

@Lopine I'm centre left too and I'm not in favour-

Yes probably because you work but many don't and get it all free. Anyone with earnings under £935 a month will get all dental care, prescriptions etc free if they have kids and most of those earnings won't even reduce their UC because of work allowances and taper rates. Everyone benefits form the generous work allowances and taper rates because we've reached a point where so many people are on benefits they have to be incentivised to work.

Nope this is incorrect. I know that without doing a calculation yet I have sat and done a rough calculation based on income. 25k yearly gives you a monthly income of £2083 gross but after tax £1793 net, then universal credit of around £353 child benefit of £257 and IF using max childcare credit for 2 children theyd get around £4143.25 of which about £2000 is towards childcare costs

On 130k a year you get 10833 a month gross and after tax (across three rate brackets as its not 45% on the whole lot) the net income is £6819

That being said I don't think the cap should be removed. As it should be a deterrent to having more children that they cannot afford without help. There has to be a line drawn on how much help you get otherwise too many (and I know some you used to do it in the past) would continue to have children to avoid working because they knew the government would help. The world is already overpopulated as it is anyway.

As side note I still think circumstances should be taken into account so that should someone have more than 2 kids and fall on unfortunate times then a separate type of benefit for a limited time (5 years max)to help them get back on their feet would be an idea to look into.

So there's no actual point in that claimant working

Well there's always a point to working unless your loaded with money that can afford you fulfilment in all aspects of life

There's not just the financial aspect
You have the social aspect of being around hopefully, like minded people
The economical aspect of contributing to society
The personal improvement aspect of starting at one point and through training and experience working your way up and having a sense of achievement.
If all your getting out of work is the financial aspect then perhaps you are in the wrong job/career.

I mean from a tax/ benefit point of view. Why are people outraged with people claiming living benefits for their children instead of childcare expenses for their children

Don't forget that if you're not working (assuming no disability) you'd also be subject to the benefit cap. Which outside of London, with children is just over £1800 pcm. Of course you'd have no childcare costs.

Yes I guess many of those those not working would not even benefit from 2 child cap being lifted if benefit cap not lifted too. no point lifting one without the other and benefit cap also includes child benefit so if you get child benefit for five kids and child element of Uc for two you maybe aren't even going to see all of that child benefit so in a way that is capped too ? not sure if I'm thinking this through correctly ?

No that's correct as far as I know.

That’s my point.. they don’t legal marry for the benefits, they have the religious wedding but are totally fine with lying to the state that they’ve got pregnant repeatedly with a man/men they are no longer are in contact with.

Just to extend the point that this is taking away from families in real need: a women I know personally, has two children and every benefit under the sun going (latest she’s told me she’s going to go for mental health now too so she doesn’t have to work the few hours she had been doing) - she manages to get away every summer to her holiday home in the Med for 8 weeks at a time - yes the kids miss the end and start of the school year, but no one raises an eyebrow. Oh, and here’s the kicker, she’s living in a 3 bed/ 2 bathroom/ 2 reception room/ 1930s house with garden worth £750,000 plus in zone 2, curtesy of the tax payer. And then you have another woman I know personally, 2 kids, younger is severely disabled and will need constant care for the rest of his life as he will never be independent. She lives in a tiny 2 bed flat, with kitchen and living room in one tiny space that there is no room for the essential physio equipment does not fit. She’s rightfully claiming every disability benefit she can for her child. Someone please explain to me why the family in real need is suffering while the other family are living the life of utter luxury under the same system?

I’m as left leaning as they come, and am critical of the benefit system because I’m not blind to be rampant fraud within.

I’ve got a long list.. where do I name and shame?

I believe in the welfare state, I believe in supporting anyone when they need it. I believe in taking care of the needy. My job, and tax bracket says i should vote Tory but I never will because my belief helping the vulnerable is so strong. But I can’t bare it when people take the mick, and so many around me do.

How does she get away with that considering you are only allowed to leave the UK for 28 days on UC. Might be worth mentioning it to someone....

Sorry but this is bullshit. I earn less than 935 a month I can assure you dental care is not free. Far from it.

Because if you work you pay tax and NI and have more cash in your pocket to spend, thus you support more business. Because it creates jobs (albeit minimum wage ones) which is good for the economy a whole. Because the argument 'I work, put my children in childcare missing out on all sorts so why should I contribute to someone else not working' is a sound argument in some cases - obviously, disabilities, ill-health, special needs, caring responsibilities for.older family.members etc are excluded but if you have 2 healthy adults managing one full time job between them.it grates a bit.

That said, if people are operating within the system, doing what works for.thrm and not claiming illegally, the argument you have is with the law makers,surely?

Absolutely not. I am already paying too much tax

Ok well it's not bullshit. If your earnings are less than £935 a month you should be getting free dental care/ optical and prescriptions. It will tell you that on the bottom of your monthly UC statement. this is if you have kids on your claim. If not then it's £435.

UC doesn't have "taper rates" in the same way that tax credits did. It's a whole different ball game. I've claimed benefits for 16 years and can assure you, it's far better to work if you can, you get more money that way.

Of course it's a taper rate. for each additional pound you earn on UC you lose 55p of benefit. That's on top of between £404 and £673 being completely disregarded for work allowance if you ahve kids or LCW/ LCWRA.

Yes. Therefore you're better off working more and earning more.

Maybe because by working you will eventually contribute and cover your own retirement costs and healthcare whereas choosing to be supported by others means this will be a lifetime of claiming.

Earn less than 935, do have kids. The dentist is free for my kids but not me, currently looking into denplans but theyre all quite expensive where i live.
In fact I haven't been to the dentist since I was a kid myself. Only kids get free dental care

I technically get free dental care, although I think it's only the very basics that are free. But there are no nhs appointments to be had, so I don't actually get free dental care.

I've also never had a uniform grant, or half the other things people claim are free if you're on benefits. still waiting for my goat

You should be getting it free also as if oyur earnings are below £935 then you will also get it free.. I guess your not getting it free because you haven't actually been to a dentist for years but if you do then you can get it free.