Should Labour abolish the two child benefit cap?

[changefromhr]

In two minds about this. Yes for those who find themselves on benefits after having more than two children (job loss, divorce etc) but perhaps not for those who choose to have more than two children when they have never worked (disabled families excepted).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/11/uk-two-child-benefit-cap-affected-1-6-million-children-last-year-figures-show

Oh, and before someone jumps on 'inheritance being heritable' - which wasn't my original point, but is true - we're talking about probabilities.

Of course not everyone who has always lived on benefits and never worked has low intelligence. Some are trapped in generational benefit dependency. A pp on this thread has talked about her own family thinking she's daft not to play the system for benefits: but she became a successful accountant. Some of her relatives probably also have the academic ability to do that, but she said she's the only one who has.

Others stuck on benefits for generations don't have that ability. The probability of someone in a high-paying job having high ability is greater than for someone who has never worked.

Like I said though: that wasn't really my point - which was about the likelihood of someone's child becoming a productive member of society.

Just to add to the picture.. I’m that PP who grew up on basic benefits in a sink estate with family ridiculing me for studying beyond GCSEs (not marrying at 16 and making babies was like bringing shame to the family as they celebrated when so-and-so’s daughter got a council flat that way) - but, we didn’t have generational joblessness (which is certainly a serious concern) but rather my parents were migrants from the 70’s / 80’s and the whole cohort who came with them saw / see benefits as a way of life. I, and I’ll say my most of siblings, have broken the mould, but we are the black sheep in the community.

the point I’m making is that there is generational joblessness, and than there is also a culture of benefits. Both are bad. Kids from anyone are full of wonderful potential, but those from the benefit / low income / deprived backgrounds have everything stacked against them.

If however, I was in charge of an economy, I would be using probability in a fair way to support whatever would improve that economy.

it’s true we shouldn’t punch down, but punch up and look at the problems in society creating unaffordable childcare, but it’s totally naive to think benefit fraud and attitudes is not one of those contributors to the problem.

Finally the low paid work, the undesirable but crucial work, is NOT being done by British born people, it’s being done by the hard working recent (last 10/15 years) immigrants. (When’s the last time you’ve had a cockney reply to “good morning” from a binman?)

When’s the last time you’ve had a cockney reply to “good morning” from a binman

Well maybe all binmen in London are immigrants but I can assure you they are not where I live

Nor here

Same here

I'm not buying the hard working immigrants mantra especially when you stated upthread about members of a certain community pretending to be unmarried to claim benefits

There are people in all communities who are hard working and some lazy ones too

I suspect most of the bin men are Eastern European in London?

It’s not a mantra..
I didn’t say every person is the same…
I suppose come of them bin men are but wouldn’t say all. Not sure why you’d make that assumption about Eastern European people.

Not sure what point you’re making.

I’ve lost track of all your comments so that post alone is odd… (think I’ll just ignore).

Ok but the ones I've encountered have been

Nothing odd about my post

Fine. Can’t argue with your own personal experience.

👍

No. Definitely not.

London and large inner cities are very different to large parts of the country.

One of 6 on a council estate dad worked as a miner mum stayed home - no benefits - when the mines shut he just got another job

...and yourself?

You don't get to speak for me.

And certainly don't add your own thoughts and connect them to a post that I've written, judging me on your own standards.

More children will be in poverty if the benefit cap is lifted. It will just encourage feckless breeding.

Then why has child poverty increased since the cap was introduced? by your argument it should have gone down.

Whats the point of bringing in migrants to do low skilled work, whilst at the same time encouraging a low birthrate through increased poverty?

Precisely.

very few born on the UK are willing to do low skilled work as the cost differential between and benefits and the minimum wage pay is so small. This is the big problem the new government has- how do you force people into minimum wage work rather than manipulate the benefits system (one of the ways of which is to keep having children ). I honestly have no idea how the government will do this but on the one hand investing in education but on the other hand hoping that many will fail so they can take unskilled work is a massive dilemma!

A lot has happed since the cap to drive vulnerable people into poverty - Liz Truss / cost of living / energy price hike / global instability / covid - do YOUR children a favour and educate yourself.

Why are some contributors here so bent on a single cause and effect? Tends to be the obviously right-leaning, ignorant, not-closet-racisty ones too. Makes me really worry for the kids these people quite likely have (considering the fact that they are contributing to MN).

Did you go round do a survey? Or just read some click bait for the Daily Mail? I know plenty of Laura’s and Jackie’s and Elaine’s, who have never worked but just these three ladies have 23 kids between them. Fecklessness is not a racial thing, just like ignorance isn’t - “Notaflippinclue” - too bloody right!

Well, a single person will get around £320 in JSA/UC and a further £300 in rent support each month.

NMW will give the worker £1600 per month take home (for a 37.5hr week) so £1k more, so how big would you like the differential to be?

Plenty of people born in the UK do low paid work, its rather insulting to suggest they do not but of course, as so many companies have made huge profits in recent years, there's no reason why wages should stay low, the NMW seems to have become a ceiling for workers in many sectors.

The cost difference between minimum wage and benefits is not small at all, even if you're a single parent. When I was made redundant last year as a single parent of 1, I received £1k a month (which comprised of JSA, rent allowance, and the child element). Working in a low paid job put me £1k a month better off as I still receive UC but it's far more generous when you're working.

It's all so tiring isn't it. I live somewhere Mumsnet would probably consider "deprived" and almost everyone works, the small amount of people who don't either have really young children or they are cognitively really slow and not many employers would hire them. Unemployed people on universal credit have to have constant meetings and are really pushed to find a job (of course this is a good thing) it's not 2004 when you could maybe get away with being a bum it's 2024! Some people on this thread watch benefits Britain documentaries made 20 years ago and think the world's still the same 😂.

If it's not "British people are lazy we need loads of migration to do the jobs" it's "British people aren't having enough kids we need loads of migration because they have more kids"
You literally can't win haha funnily enough none of the mumsnetters parroting these lines ever live in the "diverse areas" they claim to love