Should Labour abolish the two child benefit cap?

[changefromhr]

In two minds about this. Yes for those who find themselves on benefits after having more than two children (job loss, divorce etc) but perhaps not for those who choose to have more than two children when they have never worked (disabled families excepted).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/11/uk-two-child-benefit-cap-affected-1-6-million-children-last-year-figures-show

No. Benefits are out of control. Too many feckless scroungers

If the 2nd child is twins or triplets etc then the cap does not apply so your argument is pointless

As always there's a massive assumption that anyone who dares to claim universal credit isn't working. That is not always the case. As well as this circumstances change very quickly. The assumption that everyone who has more than two children are feckless and irresponsible is just not the case. I have three children. I work. I claim universal credit. I work in the NHS. My daughter is a student nurse now. My younger two are still in education. They are going to be an assets to future society and generating taxes which will pay for your pensions. You're all welcome.

@Missamyp

The annual total of unclaimed income-related benefits and social tariffs is now approximately £19 billion.

Perhaps the potential recipients don't actually need it! I'm sure that most people in genuine "need" will be getting the help they need to claim. After all, there are all kinds of people and organisations out there telling people what they're entitled to and helping them claim.

When my OH was diagnosed with cancer, he was given all kinds of pamphlets about how to claim benefits, plus a specialist cancer nurse who talked him through rights such as free hospital parking, help with travel costs for treatment, at what stage he'd be eligible for carers' allowance and PIP etc.

My MIL has dementia, she'd had two different people go to her house after first diagnosis, helping her to claim carers allowance, blue badge, talking through PIP, asking about her income to see if she was entitled to pension credits, etc.

A lot of people who are entitled simply don't want to claim because they don't actually need the extra money and they don't want the hassle of going through claims' procedures, hassling the GP for proof letters of illness, etc.

@wastingtimeonhere I agree with much of that- reduce corporation tax maybe to 10% for all employers of more than 25 people paying more than £15 an hour. Give big tax breaks to pension and insurance company's building housing for social rent at social rent levels. Etc- incentivise for social good.

In my job role I ahve a constant string of people trying to claim everything they can and more ! I even currently have a client trying to claim from the local council hardship fund when she owns three properties !

We claim universal credit ,I'm well aware that circumstances change, i give up work as a nurse ti care for my severely disabled child and many families have at least one working adult
But there were always families who carried on having children when they couldn't support the ones they had .

Most "feckless scroungers" work you ignoramus.

In some circumstances yes. But I don't know how viable that is or how much it would cost to do further checks etc.
Those who have been widowed should be able to claim as long as previously they have been supporting their family.
Where couples have split more emphasis should be placed on the absent parent providing a reasonable amount to support their children, self employment income needs to be addressed in this regard, as many more people are self employed than used to be, and it is often used as an easy way to pay minimal maintenance.
Those who lose their jobs should be supported into work that allows them to support their families not forced to take any job going that then pushes their kids into poverty.

If you want to cut immigration you need to increase birth rates. Educated privileged women aren't all going to have children for you so you may as well support those who are willing to have them.

Reminds.me of the booked "Benefits". The 'wro g rats' were breeding. Eugenics.

This

I find the difference in attitude here striking. We can’t afford a second child so won’t have one, and SIL is thinking about a third after earning 1/4 of what we do. It’s so irresponsible. They are in debt for their energy and rent too 😢

The problem is (as are many situations) those perpetually taking the piss out of the benefits system as a 'choice' ( and yes those people exist and it's not a few ) have ruined it for those whose situation has radically changed beyond their control - I could never get over when someone I knew was busy telling me that she claimed in full and did 10!hours work a week max because she didn't need to work more as her boyfriend lived with her 'unofficially' and had done for 4,years and paid all the bills- she used her benefits ( herself and 2 under10s plus rent) essentially just for spending money. I was quite taken aback at her brazenness and she told me as if I would approve of her fraud and the fact she was shafting people like me who worked full time but was quite a modest earner.

It would lift a huge number of children out of poverty. Children haven't chosen that situation.

Is there anyone here who would like children to remain in poverty? Or wants to punish children because they disapprove of parents decisions?

I don't think only rich people should be entitled to have 3 children either that feels a bit weird? Especially when you look at all the important jobs like nursing and caring which are low paid.

The last things any of us want is for children to be in poverty but we have to accept that in most situations having children is a choice. I have one much loved child and would have dearly dearly loved another but with the cost of childcare/mortgage rates there was no way we could afford a second without it impacting on he quality of life of my existing child. Sadly I did accidentally get pregnant (even though I was on the pill) and we decided to have a termination as financially it wasn't doable. I think about it every day but also think about how the decision to only have what we would provide for, was the right one. I'm not saying CB itself would changed my decision (if that had been the case) but we need to be able to pay for what we choose to do.

I can assure you some people definitely do want to be on benefits. I know a couple of people who are on benefits but also work cash in hand so have a pretty good income.

Not sure that children of people who don't want to work or those that only work cash in hand so therefore do not pay tax will be future tax payers if they follow in their parents' footsteps

Nobody's saying only rich people should have three children are they ?just that if you are living solely on benefits you won't get anymore money after your second child most families have to decide how many children they can afford .

Is there anyone here who would like children to remain in poverty? Or wants to punish children because they disapprove of parents decisions?..

I'd imagine the answer to that is the parents themselves...

Yet they cling to the hope that there's always someone out there that will spill out you're last sentence, therefore enabling their feeling that their actions are acceptable.

Yes, they should.
I voted labour with a few reservations and this was one of them. I couldn't believe that a policy I considered the very worst of Tory thinking, was being adopted by Labour.
Anyone with an insight into Child Poverty hates this policy.

A lot of rich people don’t have more than 2 children as it happens. Many ‘rich’ people (by which you generally mean middle class) have 2 parent full time workers and are often time poor and choose to invest their money and resources into the 2 they have. For instance the vast majority of people who sent their children private have only 1 or 2 children. I went private and I was an older teen before a met a single person who had more than one sibling. I honestly didn’t know that was possible!

But these are children born knowing there was a cap. Where is the blame on the parents causing child poverty- why is it the government’s fault?

If the parents have worked and paid national Insurance then fair enough if they have more than 2 children. I wouldn't mind child benefit being paid in these circumstances If the parents have never worked a day in their lives, pop out sprogs will nilly without being able to pay for their children or contribute to the economy then absolutely not.

No

The two child benefit cap should be retained, but the Labour government should bring in a compulsory but low cost state insurance scheme for families with three or more kids. It would pay out if there is a change in circumstances such as loss of a parent or unemployment.

It would be mega expensive as those are not rare occurrences