To wonder why it's so controversial to talk about white behaviour throughout history?

[BeachParty]

It's an interesting discussion to have, and makes you think.
Why do so many immediately go into "how dare you!" mode or "why are you being racist towards white people?!"
Instead of actually listening to what people are saying? History is whitewashed in this country, we usually learn it from a "hero" viewpoint.

I think the ideal way to say it would have been English colonials though wouldn't you say?

Not "white people" being white has absolutely nothing to do with being colonial

@cupcaske123 Yes I agree and both myself and other people who have been following this thread all afternoon know exactly why* *@BeachParty posted this Thread.

For those that have not today MN deleted a very derogatory racist trolling post that went haywire because someone (probably banned now) decided to troll all white british people and it got out of hand and was deleted. the OP then posted this immediately after it was removed as they were enjoying it and wanted to carry it on.

That's just not true.
For starters I took my O Levels at 16 after 2 years of study. And prior to those 2 years of O level curriculum study (which I started at 14) it was compulsory to study history as it still is today until you take your GCSE options.
Are you actually in the UK OP? Do you have any experience of living/studying here because it doesn't sound like it.

I think she wants to know why the British don't learn more about the negative aspects of our colonial history

Yes, I suppose I am. This 🙂

Aha! We got there in the end.

Why the aha? 😕 Thought it was pretty clear from my posts. Clearly needed spelling out more though for some.

You can't expect current British people to be ashamed that their ancestors were so much more successful than others.

Yes I agree and both myself and other people who have been following this thread all afternoon know exactly why posted this Thread

I posted it as I thought it was a really interesting discussion and was also (genuinely) baffled as to why some get so defensive when topics like this crop up.
I still do and this is an interesting thread.

No one is expecting anyone to be ashamed. I would expect people to want to educate themselves. If success means genocide, looting and trafficking human beings then perhaps we should be open to a proper adult conversation about it.

OP I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but your thread title refers to 'white behaviour' which is classing everyone white as one homogeneous mass. That's why you got the backlash.

You want to know why we don't learn more about the very negative aspects of British colonialism. I agree, the legacy of the empire is still evident today. We should learn more about it.

Are you actually in the UK OP? Do you have any experience of living/studying here because it doesn't sound like it

Yes, I am. I stopped learning about history when I was around 13 (year 9) as I didn't have to learn about it anymore (found it boring and preferred Humanities)
Which is why I think it should be taught more in schools, and not just from "our" point of view.

Well that's a perfectly legitimate question and didn't include the word white anywhere, and pointed directly to where the blame acctually lies, in colonialism.

I don't mind England being given a hard time for it's history, it deserves it but I do mind when we are still labelled as the perpetrators to this very day.... we are not and it's clear we do learn about colonial Britain and the harm its created because I brought the word up in the first place to replace "white people"

Has there been a civilization who have not done any of those things?

You’ve been told many times why people don’t like your thread and the last one. grouping white people as one homogeneous group and in a negative light- that’s called Racism . Anyone who didn’t see the previous thread- it was taken down by mumsnet as it was a lot more overt.

Lastly you have also been told many times on this thread that education in British schools looks at both sides of the argument on Empire and it and many other controversial topics are covered and for many years now. History stops being compulsory at the age of 14 or end of year 9, however that does not mean education on History stops- PSHE, culture days, school trips cover many things. How do I know?- I’m a History teacher. Now stop baiting people- you’ve been given the answer so many times, it’s pretty clear that it wasnt your intention to investigate in the first place. Likely you will ignore this post or reply with an unrelated comment like you normally do : yeh but blah blah….

This 💯%

But it isn't taught from our point of view and I don't see how you can claim it is when you didn't take history?

I did and I am fully aware that colonialism was bad, genocidal and evil.

It is still taught today i just asked my 14 year old son what is colonialism and he told me perfectly and that it was a bad thing. He also told me all the other countries guilty of colonialism such as France. Tbf he has chosen like me to take history.

But we do, as I keep saying. But you have to have enough interest in history to want to study it, like any subject. Also there are a tonne of books on the subject. It's hardly hidden from view.

This thread is starting to remind me of the 'repentant german' sketch from, I think, the Fast Show. The one where he constantly goes round apologising for the 2nd WW.

Is this what you'd like white British people to do OP? 😂

The application of critical race theory to history and the positioning of 'white people' - or 'white English people' - as a homogenous oppressor group ignores the significant variation of socio-economic factors within that group.

At the height of empire in the Victorian period the vast majority of the U.K. population were (white) working class, employed in factories, working the land or 'in service'. That accounts for around 75% of the employed population in the 1841 census. Most never saw or directly benefitted from the riches of empire. Many didn't even have the right to vote, either for or against, imperialist policies.

My ancestors were sent down coal mines or into service at the age of 14 for generations. My grandad joined the army in 1930s and was positioned in India. He joined, not because he believed in empire or wanted to oppress anyone, but because he was a working class boy in South Wales with limited opportunities beyond spending his life underground. Politically he was a communist, he supported Gandhi and he despised the Generals who called grown Indian men 'boy'. But he was a white man in a colonial army so that automatically = oppressor, right?

I do completely agree that a breadth of history should be taught and that history should be a compulsory subject up to GCSE. But approaching history purely from a narrative of 'white oppressor' is reductive and fails to reflect the breadth and diversity of our histories.

I would be quite open to discussing this but I am not clear what is meant by "white behaviour". I am white, born in England.
I live in Wales now. I'm not aware of oppressing anyone intentionally. I have learned Welsh although I have an accent and am not completely fluent. My children went to Welsh medium schools. I work for the NHS in Wales. In some people's minds I am still a colonial settler. Am I responsible from some English authorities introducing the Welsh Not?
I have also done my family history which is full of miners and mill workers and even child chimney sweeps. One branch were Irish and came over because of the famine.
The British empire certainly did terrible harm, e.g. the way the Irish famine was handled, plundering Africa and India and subjucating the population for starters.
This was led mainly by privileged ,rich aristocrats and "owners of the means of production" for want of a better term. Often men and military men. There's a class element. Child labourers in Lancashire were hungry themselves. I don't live in a bubble though and I can see people from similar backgrounds who are openly racist.
I do agree that in current western society there is white privilege.
I have a close friend who is mixed race (African/Welsh). She tells me that everyone is racist. I question myself about that. Do I have a blind spot?

Tell me what "white behaviour" is. Do all white people behave the same way?
As other people have pointed out, if you take a longer historical perspective many cultures of many racial backgrounds have enslaved and oppressed others.
Does white mean all white people or particular nationalities?

You clearly didn't take history.... you see the selling and enslaving of the human race as a measure of success??

Go and crawl back under your rock, your giving the rest of us a bad name...

History is one of the humanities. Like you say, you didn’t pay attention at school so you don’t really know what you’re talking about. Maybe you were taught badly. Again, you have a lot of good points so cut out the incorrect generalisations and focus on your actual discussion.

This thread is starting to remind me of the 'repentant german' sketch from, I think, the Fast Show. The one where he constantly goes round apologising for the 2nd WW

Ha 😁 The Harry Enfield Show, loved it and still do lol
"I wish to apologise on behalf of my country!" 😁
Yeah, I don't mean we all have to be like that.
Just think there's an interesting wider discussion like what is happening in between any whataboutery on the thread

Is this intended to be goady. You're an embarrassment and I wouldn't want to be associated with you.

Humanities and History were two totally different subjects when I was at school.
Humanities subject was more about studying society and people. History was a separate subject. You could choose which one to ditch, along with Geography.

https://www.pearson.com/en-gb/schools/subject-resources/humanities.html

The Humanities cover a broad spectrum of subject areas and, when applied to school settings, we often associate the term with the following subjects: History, Geography, Religious Studies, Politics & Citizenship.