Page 5 | To want to write to the governors about my DD's suspension?

UndertheCedartree · 2024-07-08T10:47:43+00:00

I'm looking for a bit of help. Last week my 12 yo DD was suspended from school for half a day. She has autism and struggles. She didn't want me to leave her and was crying and clinging to me. I tried to get her to go with a member of staff for half an hour but she wouldn't. So the head teacher had to suspend her and send her home. They said I can write a statement to the governors. Does anyone know what I need to say? Is just that it was due to her ASD? Also if the headteacher keeps suspending her can she be expelled? This is the one and only time she has ever been suspended but it just got me worried.

Mummy2024 · 08/07/2024 18:45

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 18:07

She had a lovely first lesson and finished her sewing for her lemon keyring. But then in second lesson they were told they have an assessment next lesson which put her in a tailspin. She is so scared of assessments. She also thought it was outrageous that they were having assessment in their last week as to her mind it should all be fun! 😂 Then her last lesson was a substitute which really unsettled her so she came out distressed. We were on the train and I could hear all the other girls chatting and laughing with their friends, my DD can't even travel to school alone - it just breaks my heart for her to be so sad.

I really hope what ever happens you can resolve this. If you really want to keep her there maybe you can have something stipulated in the ehcp that her attendance won't go down as unauthorised when she's distressed/anxious.

It's abundantly clear your not one of these parents that would rather keep her home or can't be bothered. The ehcp should help you hugely.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:02

crumblingschools · 08/07/2024 14:49

Don't think governors can overturn a suspension.

You could go down the complaint route but need to follow the complaints policy.

As others have said, schools can't just send pupils home. Would have to go through the fixed term suspension route. What was stated in the school communication to you?

I already have 2 complaints on the go so don't want to start a new one.

The reason for suspension was:
Failing to follow instructions and posing a health and safety risk

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:03

veritusverity · 08/07/2024 14:53

They could have marked her down as a school refusal.

^^
There is no code for school refusal....personally I think there should be, but as it stands school refusal comes under 'O' unauthorised absence (for England, I don't know if the same is true in other countries in the UK). It's important the school is informed its refusal, so if the education welfare officer becomes involved, it can be dealt with appropriately.

When you say 'education welfare officer' - do you mean the attendance person? They're certainly not interested in welfare.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:07

Airdustmoon · 08/07/2024 14:58

School governor here. It sounds like the school were between a rock and a hard place - they were happy for you to take her home but said it would be unauthorised, you then challenged them on that so they had no choice but to suspend.

You have the right to make representations to the governors but they do not have the power to reinstate when the suspension is under 5 days, so have a think about what you actually want to achieve by this.

Well, it shouldn't have been unauthorised as it was down to illness. However, what I challenged them on was illegally excluding her.

I have been told to send a statement to the governors if I so wish. I'm not after achieving anything except a paper trail, really.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:09

TheSerenePinkOrca · 08/07/2024 15:04

I would write to the governors stating the issue and asking for a solution!

My DS has a friend with ASD and struggles with school. The school has reduced his timetable to P1 to P3, then he goes home. That way his attendance is only based across 3 lessons a day and not 5, and the shorter day means he is less tired. It was originally just P1 and P2.

At the school I teach at, a few years ago we had a parent who spent all morning sitting in reception so their child would stay in school! Oddly it worked!

You need to show the governors what the issue is and suggest some strategies that might help the situation.

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The issue is extremely complex and I'm not really qualified to suggest strategies. However, what should be used is her ASD report and the report of the Ed Psych.

Having said that, I feel we do need to look at how tired she is and seems if there's something that can be done.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:12

handmademitlove · 08/07/2024 15:06

As a pp has said, I am not sure why they are telling you to write to the governors? The legislation says "106. In the case of a suspension which does not bring the pupil's total number of days of suspension to more than five in a term, the governing board must consider any representations made by parents, but it cannot direct reinstatement and is not required to arrange a meeting with parents"

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64ef773513ae1500116e30db/Suspension_and_permanent_exclusion_guidance_september_23.pdf

So you can write to the governors but they can't change the decision. What you could do is highlight to them that she didn't actually do anything wrong but was distressed during to mental health and that the correct course of action would have been to note an authorised absence for medical reasons..... And perhaps stop giving you a hard time for attendance when she is unable to attend due to medical reasons. This may highlight the lack of support within the school. You can link to

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5ce6a72e40f0b620a103bd53/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions.pdf

And

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65f1b048133c22b8eecd38f7/Working_together_to_improve_school_attendance__applies_from_19_August_2024_.pdf

Yes, that's it I am going to make a representation. I'm not asking them to change it. Yes, that's the gist of it. Thank you for the links.

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Hankunamatata · 08/07/2024 19:13

Noname99 · 08/07/2024 12:37

School’s can not just ‘send some one home.’ The only reasons schools can send a child home is if they are ill or if they suspend them. Autism / ADHD etc is not an illness. For those saying that their child’s head teacher has sent the child home and authorised it as illness due to ‘mental health’ that’s skirting very close to an illegal exclusion and I’ve supported several head teachers who have done this with the best of intentions and then, further down the line, when the problem has got worse had parents turn round and accuse them of “doing nothing and just sending him/her home” and then suddenly the head finds themself in the middle of an investigation for illegal exclusion.

Your head has done the right thing. If your child refused or couldn’t regulate themselves to be able to come into school then they should be suspended. That’s not the same as ‘blaming’ the child for this if it is due to a condition. If it happens multiple times then that can be used as evidence for additional support and you can work with the school to determine what that looks like. Ultimately if the additional support doesn’t work then it’s evidence for a needs assessment. If they've already got an EHCP then this is a new behaviour and barrier and if it continues the EHCP should be reviewed and additional support added. Suspensions are often a way to get additional support rather than always a bad thing. And they are transparent as you will have a letter saying why and you should now be offered a meeting about how the school can support you and your child moving forward. I’d spend my time doing that rather than arguing the toss with governors about a half day suspension,

Edited

This is really good explanation as ti why the principal acted the way they have

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:14

Mynewnameis · 08/07/2024 15:13

I'm really glad you posted this as I have an autistic girl about the start high school. I think initially I would have been shocked by the suspension but there are some helpful replies here.
In my letter to the governors I'd ask if there are any alternative options. And then you can consider the pros and cons of each.

Good luck to your girl. I know this thread may seem very negative but there are some amazing staff at her school that really do their best for my DD. Hopefully we can get her all the support she needs once we have an EHCP in place.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:20

HcbSS · 08/07/2024 15:23

It sounds like you are very focused on the negative connotations of an unauthorized absence or suspension on her record (understandable). But by having these wouldn’t that show that she has serious problems and needs help to stay in school? Might that not lead to more support? Ultimately she needs to be in school, and pass her GCSEs, and she can’t go through 5 years of refusing to go in. Kids with issues on their records are more likely to get referrals which may lead to more help.

I'm not actually focused on that, I actually couldn't care less. Except for the fact it puts more stress on me because they're on my back about it. And yes, I think it will be good evidence for her to be given a EHCNA.

But actually ultimately there are different routes other than school. I'm wanting school to work out but I have an older autistic DS so been there got the t-shirt! He's doing really well with his T levels now at 17 but wasn't in school to do GCSEs.

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Hankunamatata · 08/07/2024 19:21

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 18:07

She had a lovely first lesson and finished her sewing for her lemon keyring. But then in second lesson they were told they have an assessment next lesson which put her in a tailspin. She is so scared of assessments. She also thought it was outrageous that they were having assessment in their last week as to her mind it should all be fun! 😂 Then her last lesson was a substitute which really unsettled her so she came out distressed. We were on the train and I could hear all the other girls chatting and laughing with their friends, my DD can't even travel to school alone - it just breaks my heart for her to be so sad.

It's good you and dd are able to identify issues of what went wrong during school day.
She's terrified of tests - is there anything dd think will help with this?
I'd she able to go to learning support centre at any time? So if there is a sub teacher and she is very unsettled is she then allows to leave and go to learning support?

Have you looked at other schools to see if they would offer a better fit? Even private schools?

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:24

VickyEadieofThigh · 08/07/2024 16:18

Who has "asked" you to write to the governors? You said earlier that "they" said you can "make a statement" to governors and I'm confused about who has said what to you.

The governing body, as others have said, cannot overturn this suspension, so any letter you write to the chair of governors (which is the person you'd actually write to) needs to have some other purpose.

Do you want to make a complaint about how this was handled? If so, you need to go via the school's complaints policy and your complaint would go to the headteacher in the first instance.

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The head teacher has asked me to make a statement.

The purpose is that the school make a statement to the governors so they want the parent to as well to make it transparent.

I've already made clear it is not a complaint hence me not following the complaint policy!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:25

Mummy2024 · 08/07/2024 16:20

Your the OP that's been having problems in other ways no? The school trip etc? I'm flabbergasted they've now decided to start doing this instead.

I know you like the school but quite honestly I've never known anything like it. I feel like things are taking an awful turn for you and your DD. I wouldn't be suprised if they soon want her to be placed elsewhere. They can't suspend a child for being upset, honestly I'd be raging and at the council first thing tomorrow.

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Yep! You recognised me!

What would you do at the council?

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:30

Mummy2024 · 08/07/2024 16:35

Sorry OP but this school can't meet her needs. They are clearly showing they cannot meet her needs, by sending her home. I wouldn't be surprised if very soon they tell you and the council that they cannot meet her needs and that's because they cannot. I also think it's strange you've been asked to write a statement to the governors was this by the school or someone else?

You've had issues after issue the senco basicly made out to you that there was only so much they can do for her as a mainstream school. The writing is on the wall.

I feel for you, your doing absolutely everything possible to get her into school and are met with this excluding her because they can't persuade her into school Or manage her condition appropriately. She needs a needs assesment and far more funding than she's currently getting at the very least.

If you haven't contacted IAS then you really need to they are there to help with the legalities like her attendance and mediation with the school etc.

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I know that's why I asked for an EHCNA. What do you mean tell the council they can't meet her needs? Can they expel her?

The headteacher suggested I make representation to the Governors as the school does in the case of a suspension.

What do you mean the writing is on the wall?

What is IAS, please?

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:32

GeneralMusings · 08/07/2024 16:39

It's the LA case officers here who are often not that much use!

Is that the attendance people? The one I had was dreadful. Does such a thing as a SEN attendance person exist? I've phoned the LA to ask Friday and today and no answer.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:33

BrumToTheRescue · 08/07/2024 16:39

Parents should still make representations even for suspensions less than 5 days because it builds evidence of a picture of need.

Edited

Thank you, you've explained it better than me!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:34

Mummy2024 · 08/07/2024 16:41

Why though? Did they explain the suspension was so her attendance wouldn't be affected?

In your statement make sure you include that you didn't want to take her home and when you said that they suspended her instead, that will go in your favour at any attendance hearings. Also include that you asked to take her home calm her down and come back and that was declined aswell.

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I don't know. I thought it was better for her to be in school for part of the day. No they said nothing about attendance.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:36

Dinosweetpea · 08/07/2024 16:44

We quoted the Equality Act 2010
Also For a child to be lawfully excluded or suspended for a behaviour resulting from her disability, it must be evidenced that her needs are met. Reasonable adjustments or best endeavours etc are not the correct test with a disabled child- their needs must be met or the exclusion would be unlawful.

Edited

I'm trying that with another complaint!

Where does that come from that there needs must be met or the exclusion would be unlawful?

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:40

Mummy2024 · 08/07/2024 17:07

The senco is wrong OP, I think it's disgusting. I know I'm annoying but both my friends kids have ehcps and one of the girls is exactly like your DD and is in a specialist school. She had to fight for a year and kept her off the mainstream school because she couldn't handle going In she was exactly the same as your DD. Please contact IAS for help and stop listening to this teacher.

Specialist schools will not send her home like this or record attendance in this way if she did need to go home. They are deliberately lowering your expectations to stop you getting what your daughter requires because it's in short supply. That's not your DDs fault she has rights.

She can't say we're a mainstream school there's only so much we can do and then in the next breathe say we can meet her needs here. They clearly can't if she's now being excluded.

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We had to fight to get my little nephew into specialist provision. He is non-verbal, still in nappies, global development delay - more like a 2 yo. They wanted him to go to mainstream so my DD has no chance!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:43

Mummy2024 · 08/07/2024 18:45

I really hope what ever happens you can resolve this. If you really want to keep her there maybe you can have something stipulated in the ehcp that her attendance won't go down as unauthorised when she's distressed/anxious.

It's abundantly clear your not one of these parents that would rather keep her home or can't be bothered. The ehcp should help you hugely.

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Thank you, that's kind. And yes I think an EHCP is what she needs.

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fernfriend · 08/07/2024 19:53

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/education/exclusions/exclusion-england/unlawful-and-unofficial-exclusion

This might be helpful. There are a few grey areas. X

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:54

Hankunamatata · 08/07/2024 19:21

It's good you and dd are able to identify issues of what went wrong during school day.
She's terrified of tests - is there anything dd think will help with this?
I'd she able to go to learning support centre at any time? So if there is a sub teacher and she is very unsettled is she then allows to leave and go to learning support?

Have you looked at other schools to see if they would offer a better fit? Even private schools?

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Yes, I looked at all the local schools, spoke to them, spoke to parents. Lots of research. Not private as I can't afford that.

Unfortunately, we have grammar schools so the comps aren't great. DD's school is a church school, hence having more funding and having the best facilities for SEN. It is also a small and (relatively) calm school and girls only.

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Octavia64 · 08/07/2024 19:54

The phrase expel isn't really used any more,

They say either temporary or permanent exclusion.

So with students who have needs similar to your daughter's, it is common for schools to ask parents to take the child home if the child is distressed.

Legally this is not permitted - it's an illegal exclusion because a student should be in school unless illness/school trip etc and if they have asked you to take the child home the only legal reason is because they have been suspended/temporarily excluded.

If the child has been suspended/temporarily excluded there is usually paperwork and at least in secondary it is usual for there to be a meeting with parents, child and pastoral team (re-integration meeting) to discuss the situation.

Dfe advice for parents here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-exclusions-guide-for-parents/a-guide-for-parents-on-school-behaviour-and-exclusion#what-happens-if-your-child-is-suspended-or-permanently-excluded

Obviously this is problematic and you are now stuck between two bad places because if you take her home they record it as unauthorised absence and if you don't they'll suspend her and you take her home and she has a suspension on her record.

In terms of the EHCP, the more suspensions on her record the more obvious it is the school are not meeting need and therefore she needs additional support,

Schools can permanently exclude (expel) a student, and it is possible to do this for repeated behaviour that triggers suspensions. Most schools try hard not to do this with SEND students (unless it really is incredibly obvious that needs are not being met and the student is putting themselves and others in danger).

If the school does this, there is a lot of paperwork and you do have a right to appeal. The local authority then takes on responsibility for her education (after I think 5 or 15 days) and needs to find her another school.

Many counties have agreements not to permanently exclude (expel) and will instead do what is called a managed move where they essentially swop a student with another school. So your child would have a different school they could try.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 19:57

Hankunamatata · 08/07/2024 19:21

It's good you and dd are able to identify issues of what went wrong during school day.
She's terrified of tests - is there anything dd think will help with this?
I'd she able to go to learning support centre at any time? So if there is a sub teacher and she is very unsettled is she then allows to leave and go to learning support?

Have you looked at other schools to see if they would offer a better fit? Even private schools?

Show quote history

I think with tests the best thing if they give clear revision and put it on Teams so I can see it and support her with it.

She can leave but she doesn't like 'causing a fuss'. There are a couple of LSAs who have really got to know her and will see she is struggling and takes her out. She's not so good at doing this herself.

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Lougle · 08/07/2024 19:57

UndertheCedartree · 08/07/2024 17:03

I wish I'd applied for the assessment earlier but the school told me she'd not get an EHCP and they could meet her needs. The SEN department are still saying it will be hard to get her one, but the Head is adamant she needs one.

At the attendance meeting the person from the LA just kept going on about this is a mainstream school, this is what high schools are like etc. What do they expect me to do? She won't get a special school place, according to the SENCo it will be difficult to get her an EHCP, bt chaut her needs are her needs - we can't change that! So where is she to go?

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Who says she won't get a special school place?

DD2 -ASD, anxiety, intelligent but found it hard to learn in a mainstream school. School refusal started in year 9. Completely fell apart in year 10. Reduced timetable and concessions in January of year 10, then completely out of school by March of year 10. SEN department refused to apply for an EHCNA, so I did, using, in part, attendance data and notes made on CPOMs that I obtained via a Subject Access Request. In September of year 11, she had an EHCP naming a specialist independent school (3:1 ratio) and deceleration to year 10. Then when that failed, she had an EOTAS package for a year. Now, in year 12, she is going to another specialist setting that gives bespoke curriculums with 1:1 support throughout the day.

DD3 - anxiety, OCD, and most likely ASD. Super high achiever (still get 'Oxbridge potential' emails despite being out of school since last year). School refusal started in year 9, support put in place but difficulties arose. Deteriorated in year 10, completely out of school by November of year 10. EHCNA supported by school, but they were slow, so I did it. Specialist setting that gives bespoke curriculums with 1:1 support throughout the day lined up for September.

Your DD needs more support
It is shameful that they didn't authorise absence and send her home. My DDs never once got an unauthorised absence.

BrumToTheRescue · 08/07/2024 20:03

It isn’t strange for parents to make representations to the governors following a suspension.

What you have posted would not meet the lawful threshold for permanent exclusion. The school cannot unlawfully off roll DD either. The school can’t just say they can’t meet DD’s needs and remove from the roll. It doesn’t work like that.

Ignore the SENCO and attendance officer. You may have to appeal, but an EHCP, and SS if required, are possible.