To not understand the fixation on attendance?

[Gardenschmarden99]

Or at least to the level it currently is…

New education secretary and based on her speech to the association of school leaders it seems her focus is on attendance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m an ex teacher with two primary age children who go to school whenever they aren’t unwell. Broadly I’m in favour of children going to school!

But I don’t think I’ve met many teachers who really think the current fixation is helpful. For those with deep seated problems, they would benefit from intervention. For those families that were unlucky enough to catch covid and a sickness bug in one school year the rather officious computer says no letters just erode the seriousness of actual attendance problems.

When children are unwell, they shouldn’t be in school even if it makes the attendance dip below 97%.

SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher…. And yes, I’d also be in favour of my child’s teacher being able to go to a family wedding or see their child on sports day or (God forbid) have a day out with their spouse a few times a year.

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

AIBU?

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

Correlation. It's probably somewhere where parents care about education. A big slice of British parents don't. And have to be forced.

I totally agree. If I was education secretary the very first thing I would be doing is ending this stupid obsession with 100% attendance!
Especially as it's largely out of the school's power and puts unfair stress on them. And also on children who are expected to go to school whilst unwell.

Other countries do things so much better.

Attendance and sats.

You don’t fatten a pig by keep weighing it.

Totally agree op.
It's ridiculous.

School showed us a graph with a direct correlation between lack of attendance and low grades.

I disagree when in comes to holidays. Illness is of course different. There are plenty of holidays that can be used. In one week you can miss a whole unit of maths, all the English inputs towards an independent write as well as lessons in Science, History etc. It is almost impossible to help all those children who regularly go on holiday to catch up. They will have ongoing gaps, which parents will then blame on teachers.
I value travel and experiences highly, however most children taken on holiday in term time seem to be off to somewhere like Disneyland or to sit by a pool.

I haven't heard her speech so will have to have a listen. In my work I sometimes see families whose children have consistently low attendance eg 60%, or who don't go at all, this is often where there might be difficulties happening at home or occasionally safeguarding, and even when families are highly supported by services, attendance can remain low for children who do have lots of potential if they were to access school more. So from that perspective I'd be interested in what she said. I agree otherwise though for most families it's not relevant is it as attendance isn't an issue.

I agree. My DD was very unwell in years 7-9, still not great in years 10-11 but she worked so hard at home if not in school. Genuine ill health. She’s predicted top grades at GCSE, so the below 70% attendance in year 9 hasn’t affected her. The school got a bit arsey with me until I reminded them it was them calling me to pick her up constantly, so once when they rang I told them I was being sent letters about attendance so maybe best she sits quietly for 30 mins and see if she’s well enough to stay. They rang back in 5 mins saying she was upset so I went to get her

Attendance is easy to measure.

Things that are easy to measure are easy to set measurable targets for.

Setting targets is a mechanism for control

But is that mixing up cause and effect? A Sen child without support is likely to get poor grades whether they attend school or not, the issue is that they don’t have support, which can cause further issues that contribute to the poor attendance.

it’s like the other line that gets trotted out to justify putting children with high needs in mainstream rather than specialist, becuase children in main stream do better academically than children in special schools, of course they do as you are comparing apples with pears.

A local school recently gave a student a bike for not having a single day off for the whole of primary school, even through covid. I struggle to believe a child could go two years without having a single cough cold or raised temperature, so while other parents were abiding by the Covid rules, his parents were not.

Children cannot help being poorly, being lucky enough to not get poorly for a whole year is reward enough!

The issue there is disengagement.

Being dragged into school will not necessarily improve this.

I agree completely. It's so much pressure on schools which schools then pass on to parents.

I'm on a board of governors and how attendance is talked about is ridiculous like children should never be ill and should come in regardless.

I've read that attendance is worse than ever. I wonder if anyone has considered that it's got worse as schools have been forced to put more and more pressure on parents creating dislike and resentment and maybe if schools were able to focus more on working with parents and students they would have betters outcomes.

And this phenomenon where kids are told they are not allowed to attend a school prom or not allowed to attend an end of year trip because of attendance - these have to stop.

I am sick to the back teeth of hearing these policies implemented with young people being absolutely gutted, particularly where there is an academy CEO who seems unanswerable to the public and is happy to take a six figure salary from the public purse.

You want an extra 5 'discretionary' days as well as the vast number of days children and teachers already have off?
Education standards are on the floor already. Too many parents don't care about their child's education. They take them out of school 'because holidays are cheaper ', proving that they value their needs above those of their kids and they do not care about the disruption to the class caused by such kids when they get back, and having to catch up with work missed. But the parents tell you 'it's good for their social skills to meet people from england drinking at old mother reillys old red lion pub while eating chicken and chips sitting by a pool other cultures'

I feel the way it is being measured is part of the issue.

Daughter on the spectrum frequently has anxiety at the school gates and enters at 09:20. Daughter is then marked off for the entire morning although she is attending the majority of the session.

I think until people stop using an Ofsted one word rating to describe a school.

Everyone wants a 'Good' one and this is what schools need to do to tick that box. I'm sure they'd rather spend tge admin chasing money etc on something else too.

Does someone have a link to the speech ? Thanks

I think it’s important not to miss lesson time. Our school also sent out information regarding attendance vs achievement. Ultimately my DD is the one who will directly benefit from being present and accounted for. I don’t make sure she has good attendance for the benefit of the school, it’s for her.

She’s ahead so no a few days here probably wouldn’t be the end of the world but I’ve known kids with poor attendance who start to struggle socially because they are missing out on the ebs and flows of the school social scene. It makes it harder and harder to go in.

Also if 5 days is fine, why not 6 or 8 or 10. I also think theres poorly and then theres poorly. At nursery they constantly had runny noses constantly so the rule was as long as theres no temperature send them in. Also Dd has never had a raised temperature, ever. She’s had infections/COVID (also some people appear to be immune to COVID) and no raised temperature. So I can well believe that some kids just don’t get really ill or show symptoms of illness. I rarely get ill myself.

Yeah that’s unreasonable, she should be given a concession and marked as present.

My lads 12 he's in year 7, he's not been poorly or had a day off sick since year 2. He just hasn't been poorly,. He's never, not once, actually thrown up - he'll panic when he does because he's never experienced it. If he was poorly I'd keep him off in a heartbeat he just never has been. Not a cough, cold, belly ache or anything and I'll happily admit we've been very lucky. That's all, lucky. Never been rewarded with anything though except for 100% certificate every term!

One of mine didn’t go at all for a long time (due to SEN) and neither school or local authority gave a flying foxtrot.

There was none of the usual “definite correlation” chat being wheeled out then. School and local authority had to be forced. I am a middle class, well educated parent and able to articulate myself. I feel most parents would not have been able to navigate the series of obstacles and would not have known to create a lengthy paper trail.

Facebook groups like “Not Fine in School” have hundreds of parents who have lost their jobs, while supporting children who cannot attend (through mental health and SEND) and who are being fined & given a criminal record. This would have a completely counterproductive effect on any family.

The issue is a large % of parents don't see education as a priority. Until they do, the focus needs to remain.

My ds is16 so I've done 12 years of this. I've always ignored the school's pressure letters but ds' education has always been the top priority.

If he is poorly, he stays at home because he is infectious or has a fever. The only term-time holiday I've taken him on, he was 4 and we were offered a free week skiing. Legally he didn't need to be there.

We've managed 98-100% every other year. A mixture of luck and priorities.

This is a popular theme wheeled out that “a large percentage of parents could not care less about whether children attend”. I would like to see the rigorous research that backs this up.

The problem is not with the occasional (and entirely understandable) days off sick; with children with serious illness or with specific needs and difficulties or EBSA it's with the massive increase in children whose attendance is really low, like 50-75%.
If you think that isn't going to impact on their learning, wellbeing and future life chances, you're wrong. Not only do they miss their learning through that time, but everyone else doesn't. The gap widens.
Children going on holiday may have a great time but rarely has it enhanced their cultural understanding. They tell us what they've done and seen and it's usually been in the pool.
I have every sympathy with those who have genuine health reasons that affect attendance and will always support them. But there is a big problem with low attendance, and a link with disadvantage and vulnerabilities. Government really does have to do something about it because otherwise the rich will continue to get richer and the poor get poorer.