To not understand the fixation on attendance?

[Gardenschmarden99]

Or at least to the level it currently is…

New education secretary and based on her speech to the association of school leaders it seems her focus is on attendance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m an ex teacher with two primary age children who go to school whenever they aren’t unwell. Broadly I’m in favour of children going to school!

But I don’t think I’ve met many teachers who really think the current fixation is helpful. For those with deep seated problems, they would benefit from intervention. For those families that were unlucky enough to catch covid and a sickness bug in one school year the rather officious computer says no letters just erode the seriousness of actual attendance problems.

When children are unwell, they shouldn’t be in school even if it makes the attendance dip below 97%.

SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher…. And yes, I’d also be in favour of my child’s teacher being able to go to a family wedding or see their child on sports day or (God forbid) have a day out with their spouse a few times a year.

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

AIBU?

I can only speak for my own kid. But "being supported in school" is not as useful to him as being able to take a break from the school environment.

I've seen their "support" for his attention difficulties for example. They sit him with an egg timer and let him have a break when the timer runs out.
Then they bring him in for meetings and make him sign contracts to try and work for 15 mins rather than 10. He gets stressed and confused about why the rules are changing and why his best efforts aren't enough.

They are trying to manage his behaviour when he's in a state of overwhelm. And they tell me he's "improving" if they force his attention onto something for a few minutes more than they did the day before.

At home he voluntarily reads for hours at a time and can do maths several years ahead of his age.

That's why I pulled him out of school. And I pulled him out of an academic support club that tried the same thing.

If his new special school does similar, he won't be staying there either.

Most staff want school to be a positive experience.

But we've all had to sit through a boring lesson, or been told off for breaking a rule that makes school nicer for everyone, or just generally wished we could be at home in bed or gaming or whatever.

We cant solve everything for obvious reasons, and there's always been truancy. But now it's an epidemic and supported by parents.

If you're all insulted because your child is genuinely ill - nobody is addressing any of this at you.

But see the posts from pp saying school and qualifications are no longer important.

Well said

Be interesting to see that split by reason. We used to do a dozen+ consultant appointments a year, at a hospital an hour away. Depending on time, it often wasn't worth going in or coming back. His attendance was unacceptable by the end of the year. His learning wasn't impacted and we frankly didn't have much choice.

He had six months of chest and throat infections where we kept him in as much as possible but he ended up with three days in hospital. Plus he's had two days surgeries. His attendance is unlikely to meet the required standards again but school are happy he's at expected level and again, what choice did we have?

I don't think medical appointments with letters should count on attendance, nor hospitalisations.

The issue is that lots of children with SEN aren't getting the support because budgets are tight.

My child started high school barely coping with year one level work but doesn't meet the requirements that they need support. This means they are expected to cope at year 7 level work without support when they are years and years behind. Of course they don't want to go to school. Everything is beyond their ability and they have no hope of ever catching up in a system that expects them to run a marathon while they are still crawling.
If they had the support they needed at primary level maybe they would be closer to coping now.
We raised issues before they even started primary and have been ignored

That's lovely for the academic kids, by all means concentrate on GCSEs, college and Uni.

But the kids who struggle academically don't have a route anymore.

Putting so much emphasis on grades gained at 16 and implying that this is the only way to succeed in life, and without it they are fucked is damaging. There are many opportunities to gain qualifications and skills after school.

"Nowadays they do so much at a younger age, but do it for a week and move on to the next thing with half the class still being clueless. "

It'll be revisited each year. But the kid who missed it last year will struggle when she meets it again, with gaps in her knowledge.

Interesting that pp are saying it was better in the glorious olden days. Which decade was that?

A dead child can reach any future.
Some of us a bit prioritising exam results because a child exams are irrelevant if they kills themselves due to mental health damage caused by school

Rather snobbish and unimaginative.

If it's a choice between a family holiday during term time and no family holiday at all, then 5 days off in terms time is going to be more beneficial than 5 days school. Obviously as long as not in an exam year.

Lots of kids barely go outside their local town so a week abroad will be educational even if it's poolside in Lanzarote.

5 days off for a child that otherwise attends well and has good parental involvement is not an issue.

The problem is lack of support for certain children and families.

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher

It's the disruption of 25~+ kids in a class each taking a different 5 random days off. Unless you're also going to completely change the accountability that teaching staff have for planning, delivery and achievement of lessons it's would just be a selfish vanity sop towards indulgent parents.

Yep, this is part of the problem. Fundamental refusal to accept that having to physically be present in the school environment is the problem for some DC. The broad correlation between low attendance and other problems is used as a juggernaut. And lots of parents simply aren't fooled by such a broad brush approach.

I agree, most school staff do want school to be a positive experience. But the curriculum and school system are not set up in a way that it can be for all kids.
Clearly badgering parents about attendance doesn't work, so why keep banging the same drum? Because there aren't the resources to do anything else.

Quite.

I know an absolute ton of parents who absolutely do believe (or did believe) in state education until they had a child who did not fit the mould for whatever reason. Suddenly you have to become "that parent" as you realise you are not going to get any real help from school or the local authority without a fight, or spending your own resources on it. And that you may well be blamed and scapegoated and indeed fined, for the issues created by the school.

There is a big statistical link between a schools attendance and it’s results.

Of course, correlation isn’t causation but children who regularly miss school do do worse, so it is a sensible school-wide target.

If you are a caring and involved parent who knows your own child, you may know that it is fine for them to take the odd day out and that they (maybe with help from you) will catch up. Or that a sports tournament or even cultural holiday in term time may be of more benefit to your child.

However, the school can’t manage this in a bespoke way, so I think you have to accept the odd ‘telling off’ or small fine in the interests of everyone else. And, as for 100% attendance certificates, of course they aren’t fair but they are as fair as most prizes, in the sense that loads of people have no chance of achieving them. I don’t think most parents or pupils care about them anyway.

It always interests me how often these threads veer into overt classism. Happens nigh on every time, invariably from someone who thinks they're occupying the moral high ground.

I should've clarified that I wasn't talking about parents with children who have physical or mental health issues. Our DD went through a period of acute anxiety where she didn't want to go to school. We did manage to get her in every day, knowing it might escalate if she stayed off, but it was bloody hard, so I do sympathise. I meant the parents who just let their kids stay at home because they don't fancy it or take term-time holidays that are the issue for schools.

But it's not schools failing children like yours, it's the lack of central funding from the last Govt that has led to a recruitment and retainment staffing crisis. There simply aren't enough teachers and specialist TAs to adequately serve pupils with additional needs.

I don't think we have to put up with any such thing when a policy is so clearly wrong-headed and causes kids such utter misery.

Particularly not when we have a new government. I will certainly be writing to them and making my views known on how the education system needs to be changed.

This is something that’s starting to change in Scotland. As well as the usual academic school work many schools are starting to offer alternative routes. Healthcare courses with no exam but lots of practical skills and work experiences built in.
Hair dressing courses that link with the local college.
Foundation apprenticeships in construction. Again with no exam but continual practical assessment and work experience with local companies
Child care courses. Retailing courses. Introduction to engineering courses. There are many of these alternative options on offer in more and more schools.

The main issue with them at the moment ironically is persuading parents that it might be a better option for their non-academic child than trying to get them through an exam in French. That it’s a totally viable qualification and for many will lead them directly into a career.

My experience ( various counties) is that local authorities do in fact spend an absolute fortune on home tutors, on line and face to face mentors and well being practitioners for SEN children that are out of school. Forget £50 an hour for a private mainstream tutor - LA are invoiced nearer £100 an hour.

Academic engagement from children is generally low, parental expectation sky high. The LA can only use what's out there. But kids are disengaged for a reason and that's very often not something that's fixed by people in the house offering ASDAN courses.

However, the school can’t manage this in a bespoke way, so I think you have to accept the odd ‘telling off’ or small fine in the interests of everyone else.

People don't have to, is the thing. What you're saying here is that you think it would be easier if they did. A very different argument.

Policy choices have consequences, and those will also have to be accepted. A system that obliges already hard pressed schools to send out attendance letters when kids have been eg hospitalised with diabetes (an example given on this thread) is going to lead to some of those parents being alienated and pissed off. Fining can severely undermine trust. We don't get to opt out of the consequences of the system we have.

Every time these threads come up, I always say the same thing, Wales have got it right. They allow term time holidays at my kids shcool. 1 week(5 days off school) every year is fine, as long as they generally have good attendance.**

Obviously if a child is off persistently, that's different and needs to be dealt with appropriately.

how is that our fault? if they send then home under their attendance rules it shouldn't count as absence because its clearly not truancy).

It never use to be this bad.

That's the difference though. Schools used to care about truancy. Kids skipping class without parents knowing or parents keeping kids off cos they couldn't be bothered / were hiding something.

Now the focus is on attendance it doesn't just look at those kids, it wastes time on the kids with legitimate reasons for being off. And it's so obsessed with EVERYONE'S attendance, it's surely missing focus on the kids who need it most

The thing is it's not black and white.

I used to have a few days when I had friendship issues or felt anxious about school and dragged myself in.

DD2 on the other hand was absolutely fine at primary school but developed stomach ache on the second day of secondary school. Of course we just thought it was settling in issues and "made" her go in.

However when she was having full on panic attacks, fighting us and running away - anything to avoid school, we thought there may be something more to it.

I really can't stand the "just make them go" parent. They haven't a fucking clue.

Yes and the "good" parents will get stressed and annoyed and demoralised by these responses from school whereas the "bad" parents probably don't even read them and don't even care as they have bigger problems, probably are used to dealing with debt collectors, drug dealers and other much more threatening people. The approach shows a lack of understanding of the variety of people in society and pretty obviously wasn't the idea of anyone who's worked with problem families

Why, thank you, kind lady, for your unimaginative and unimaginative reply.
Of course, I forgot we are now in the 'me, me, me' generation, where your needs are paramount and bugger everyone else.