To not understand the fixation on attendance?

[Gardenschmarden99]

Or at least to the level it currently is…

New education secretary and based on her speech to the association of school leaders it seems her focus is on attendance.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m an ex teacher with two primary age children who go to school whenever they aren’t unwell. Broadly I’m in favour of children going to school!

But I don’t think I’ve met many teachers who really think the current fixation is helpful. For those with deep seated problems, they would benefit from intervention. For those families that were unlucky enough to catch covid and a sickness bug in one school year the rather officious computer says no letters just erode the seriousness of actual attendance problems.

When children are unwell, they shouldn’t be in school even if it makes the attendance dip below 97%.

SEN children without support don’t have an attendance problem, they have a support problem (and I know this is because central government don’t fund local government well enough to pay for it but the kids can’t help that!)

I also think it would be such a crowd pleaser to allow 5 days authorised holidays at the discretion of the headteacher…. And yes, I’d also be in favour of my child’s teacher being able to go to a family wedding or see their child on sports day or (God forbid) have a day out with their spouse a few times a year.

My family live in a European country (not especially known for being ‘progressive’) where all this over focus on attendance is just not a thing. They outperform us in league tables for academic and mental health of children.

AIBU?

I had such an unpleasant time at secondary school - bullying (not particularly targeted at me, but widespread), sexual harassment, inadequate bathroom facilities, no time or place to buy or eat lunch, poor behavour, not enough teachers - being taught by subs for entire years. There are major issues in schools that aren't going to be fixed by simply demanding parents force their kids into school. Little wonder parents and kids aren't all thrilled to attend.

My thinking on this has changed after Covid. Schools were shut for years on and off unlike in most other countries. Two of my children didn't get to take their gcses/A levels. Thousands of "ghost" children never came back. Children were forced to wear soggy rags on their face all day which govt knew did nothing (but have admitted were just to compete with nicola sturgeon). It was obvious govt and some teaching unions did not value education. Still do my best but taking my Year 1 child out for a holiday end of this term and feel no guilt. I know they will be fine.

It's because some people can't imagine how other people live and don't take 5 minutes to consider why someone might make the choices they do.

What many parents perhaps also don't understand is that schools are obliged to send out letters about attendance on the instructions of LEA. It's not their choice to do so. Each class register is a legal document of record and each pupil's attendance therefore automatically logged with the LEA. Schools have to demonstrate to the LEA that they chasing up pupils who aren't coming in. The nuance of reasons why doesn't matter to the LEA though, for them it's just a numbers game.

Attendance isn’t a problem in the Private Sector.

I found it useful to tell parents how many hours of maths or literacy (for instance), their child had missed during their time off. Most didn't realise.

And of course that causes problems in the relationships between the parents and schools, which the LEA don't have to deal with but the teachers do. It's such a bad policy approach.

In Scotland there are no fines or penalties for unauthorised absence and we've still had a real problem with low attendance since Covid. Looking into why this is happening is important as it is a sign that something is wrong, either with support, society, mental health etc.

I personally think the rhetoric that kids need days off for their mental health, is not in their best interests (yes, blah blah blah, there will be exceptions but at the same rate as before Covid, it's all the extra ones that are the issue). It is short termist and stores up problems, but luckily for parents and schools these problems will kick in when they leave school and are no longer their problem.

These poor kids, being encouraged by the adults to stay home on screens when they feel a bit tired and then reaching 18 and trying to forge a path in the world with less qualifications, less resilience, less hobbies and interests, less friends etc. I work at a university and we're already picking up a lot of that slack, but the people really missing out are these kids unprepared for life and unaware that they can get more out of it.

It is harder for school and parents for children to make the most of their school years, to help them keep up and not fall behind their peers (making things worse) to make adjustments for kids who have got particularly stuck. Going to school when you are clinically well should be the default again, with all the challenges that brings for kids, parents and schools alike.

Obviously I don't agree with the schools having to target the compliant families who have had a bad year with bereavement or illness. These things have always happened though, it is the additional kids staying off that require the focus.

🤣

In what world do you imagine us parents are encouraging our children to be off school playing on screens.

Get real there is no world that parents do this. What actual benefit would there be to do this?

Some people haven't got a bloody clue

Or that too many children are being left behind, locked out of learning and school is beyond boring for them?
They have no motivation and can't see the point.

I agree because of DD2 been struggling with the noise and behavior - (despite being in top sets the school has issues ) instead of dealing with behavior or talking to us about how we can help her - they issued a pass to get her out of lessons. So she left and we only know because she talks to us.

Obviously we've then step in with rescue remedy, calming apps, noise blocking headphones - fidget toys - stuff that helps her cope and stay in the actual lesson and emphasised how important that is. Even she admit not being in the lesson impacts her - though again she had parental support to catch up.

The school attitude is she on site and has a tick in the register - that it that's all they care about. They didn't seem bother her grades were dropping.

Some of her mates with slightly lower predications - also leaving lessons due to noise and behaviour they can't cope with - have found they've dropped so much they can't do what they want after school and some with unsupportive families are giving up now in Y10.

The assumption see to be attendance = learning and I agree if your not in school having lessons that that can drastically (depending on child and situation) impact outcomes so can see why it's a shorthand - but if being on site and ticking that box is enough it's pointless.

At a statistical population level, of course there is a correlation between attendance and grades.

What is not clear is whether there is any causation. Low attendance and low grades may both be caused by things we already know affect educational outcomes:

1. Health
2. SEN
3. Whether parents value education
4. Deprivation

We can’t fix the underlying cause by simply focusing on a different outcome of that cause.

Our schools focus on attendance is directed more towards having kids in school and knowing they’re safe and fed. Our school don’t come down hard on uniform although they prefer kids to be in school colours, but where we are is somewhat deprived and lots of kids sadly are safer in school than at home so we will always champion the attendance calls made. Unwell children are one thing, kids who are not in school because their parent didn’t get up is another

"In what world do you imagine us parents are encouraging our children to be off school playing on screens.

Get real there is no world that parents do this. What actual benefit would there be to do this? "

You are being a bit naive if you don't think there are parents who let the child decide whether to go to school or not, or phone in sick every time it rains because it's a long walk, or phone in sick every Monday because it's mum's day off work and she wants a lie in, or cba arguing the toss with a child who doesn't want to leave mid-game. The children do tell us stuff too you know.

I don’t agree with the holiday breaks or days off just for a trip out but I do agree there needs to be some slack given to those with genuine problems which there is not.

My son has a list of health issues as long as my arm, he’s under a consultant paediatrician, a cardiologist, he’s been seen by a neurologist he's currently also awaiting dermatology referral for recent issues. Much of his time off has been hospital appointments for heart scans, eegs, ecgs, follow ups. He’s passed out on the way to school and even passed out and had a seizure in school. I have kept his head of year updated in detail every step of the way. He’s had 2 A&E hospital admissions, one resulting in surgery for unrelated issues. When he's off he isn’t off because he can’t be arsed or because he has a slight headache or anything he’s off because he’s genuinely unwell and struggling. You can be damn sure with all these issues that if he has a cold I won’t just be ‘giving him a paracetamol and making him go anyway’ as I’ve been told I need to as the likelihood is he may not make it there!

I received an attendance letter, head of year told me its standard practice and is automated to weed out those taking the mick and it wouldn’t go further because they are aware of his health issues and that its genuine. Last week I was dragged in for a meeting with the Attendance Officer, I took proof if all his diagnoses, medical appointments, test results etc to prove his absence is for serious issues and we’ve been told that what the HofY told us about follow up was basically not true and despite the fact its clear there is a lot going on health wise that he can now not take anytime off without a medical certificate, if he’s not ill enough to see a Dr and get a note he can’t be off! Anytime off ill without a note will be classed as unauthorised, two of these and its £160 fine! They have told my son that even if you feel unwell in the morning you often feel better once you get going so he needs to take paracetamol and get his arse in regardless because he’ll probably be ok by 11 and if he doesn’t they have told him I’ll get a fine for not meeting my legal duty. Its a fucking pisstake. Looks like I’ll be getting fined in the not too distant future! Not sure how the fine will improve his health mind.

Unfortunately, while you might want to think this doesn’t happen, it is all too common. Pre-pandemic it would have been very unusual. Now it’s common to be a feature in low attendance of a couple of children per (primary) class.

"I personally think the rhetoric that kids need days off for their mental health, is not in their best interests"

I agree. I have seen it lots of times. As soon as the child realises school is his choice and optional, you've lost. Better to learn strategies to cope at school, strategies to decompress at home afterwards, and resilience.

I have heard lots of parents say things like 'he's promised me he'll be fine from Tuesday if he can just have Monday off' or 'she just needs a week to recover and then we'll be back'. It never works out as expected.

Utter tosh.
My child tells the school what they think the school wants to hear and to get school to back off.
I would.give my right arm to have a child that is physically and mentally healthy and able to attend school.
Having a child who can not attend school is awful, having a school who don't understand is distressing and stressful.

I don't think anyone encourages their child to be off because even if they wanted more time with their child the hassle you get from school wouldn't be worth the trade off.

I would prefer not having to deal with my child 24/7 too

I think it’s a good thing to focus on attendance, as I would think that’s the one thing that disadvantages children’s learning. I know from experience that some parents will keep their child off for a sniffle or a bit of a stomach ache. And that then goes with them into adulthood where they then apply the same level of absence when working. Although obviously children with long ongoing issues diagnosed medically, should be given a bit of leeway.

The difficulty with that is responsible parents who do this will ensure their children do some work while away and ensure that their children catch up in order not to disrupt the rest of the class. If anyone did this there would not be a problem. But many would not so their child will turn back up a week later and be behind. The teacher would then have to explain it all again, slowing down and frustrating the rest of the class. If all 30 kids did it that is a child a week on average.

I really don't believe this. I imagine this is the view school have about us.
We get the just make them come in, don't allow them nice time at home comments from school.

I think that if you actually spent time trying to understand the families you would discover that families are at breaking point because the school system is not supporting the child's needs and in many cases damaging the child mental health

Putting heads in.the sand and slamming parents isn't improving the situation and things are getting worse not better with blaming and finding parents

Can you really not imagine that there are parents who are different from you and actually don't care whether their kids are attending school regularly? Not every parent values education, as some posters on this thread have even admitted.

You have your own, valid experience of having a child who is unable to attend school regularly for health-related reasons. Teachers and schools have numerous experiences with multiple different children and families, some of whom will be different to yours.

I’m sorry, I should have been clearer. I have, over a career in teaching, taught many children who have struggled with attendance - for cultural, medical, family, housing etc etc reasons.

These children still exist, in every class, and I have been enormously frustrated over recent years at the appalling erosion of the services that should be helping, the extreme waiting lists, the disappearance of support services. The help that I and the school can give is a drop in the ocean in the face of the need, and I have every sympathy for the parents battling the system.

However, there are also families - in hugely increasing numbers post pandemic - who really do keep children home for much smaller reasons, including screen-related ones (tired after gaming all night; parent unable to remove the device from the child etc.

I am sorry if your school is failing to distinguish between the two, and I am sorry that I wasn’t clear in my original post that these are additional absentees, on top of those who would always have been absent through ill health or who have joined the list of absentees due to lack of SEN and health services and support.

Yes there maybe a small number of parents who do this but the current system doesn't support families regardless of reason.

So the fine and blame parents does nothing to support families like mine

The families where the parent is hungover or can't be bothered the system doesn't help those children either as the fine threat doesn't get the children in either.

But what the fine and blame system does is target families like mine who can't do anything about it.

The families where parents are too hungover to get child to school are more complex and need more specific support and so it's easier to target us

Neither situation actually gets any targeted support.

So the question is what can change to support these 2 unique situations?