Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

[Rainbowsponge]

My friend’s husband is a professional in the area of child development and education. He’s taught at numerous schools, SEN schools and is now a researcher. He doesn’t have children, but I do, and yesterday we were talking about the seeming increase in children with anxiety, mental health issues and what he described as ‘delayed adulthood’.

He’s British but his extended family are from India, and he said visits to see them make a striking contrast between how our children are raised and how theirs are raised. He said children are sort of left to run around in packs and find their own amusement from quite a young age, and as a result they seem more mature and confident.

His theory is that we are interrupting normal development opportunities for kids brains, and therefore they’re not properly developing. He thinks we intervene too much in perfectly ordinary learning opportunities, like playground disagreements, and our quest to make sure our children never feel challenged or upset is actually making them more anxious.

He also thinks softer, more modern punishments are bewildering children and reinforcing bad behaviour, leaving them confused about right and wrong. Children read facial expressions, so seeing us look calm/unbothered rather than angry/disappointed when they’ve done something wrong is counterproductive and blocks them from naturally learning human behaviour and socialisation.

I’m not professing to be a perfect parent at all, but it was a really interesting chat and I want to discuss it further!

But then again if I forgot mine the teachers dealt with it without informing my parents!

You do get parents that won't except that their DC can be rude or misbehave in school.

I can remember the school phoning my DM when I'd pushed the boundary in class once and asking her to collect me.

Did she go in making excuses for me..No, she didn't bother going in at all.

Her reply was.
"Why are you phoning me, when xxxxx misbehaves at home I don't phone the school and send her to you I deal with it in which way I feel needs be, so feel free to deal with the situation as you feel fit"

Although I wasn't overly naughty at school, and never rude to a teacher or member of staff it was just the done thing years ago that parents let teachers do their job and that included dishing out discipline where needed.

If I told my parents I'd been in told off for doing xyz I'd have had another telling off from them.

And it's probably the same for me. Some really unideal things happened in my childhood. It's funny because I've got friends who grew up with two loving parents in stable nuclear families who really struggle with anxiety now, whereas on paper it ought to be me not them.

But a lot of those things are from my unstable childhood I would ever emulate as a parent. So how do I give my son resilience whilst also tying to give him a stable home life?

I work in hospitality and the behaviour I see on a daily basis from middle aged people is shocking. For the most part these adults are not products of modern parenting so i'm not sure where the problem lies.

My eldest is 17. At that age I was drinking heavily and almost every day. My DS has never touched alcohol. And I'm glad of it.

Now, a lot of the very bad parenting doesn't happen as much.

I suppose if you rely on the front pages of newspapers as a barometer of how much bad parenting is happening, then you might draw this conclusion, but if you talk to anyone who works in child protection you might come to another conclusion ?

Yes I agree with you. I think that some kids who have experienced adversity learn to cover up what they’re feeling as it’s not safe to express to their caregivers… then it has no outlet.

It can be so protective to a child to have someone to talk to about how they feel and I think there is evidence that mental health outcomes for children who’ve experienced trauma and had someone that they can talk to about it are better than for those who haven’t been able to talk about what happened.

I think that someone put it well on here earlier, that children need clear boundaries and expectations (to feel safe) combined with warmth, acceptance and love, without shame. It’s a hard balance to strike, especially with so much conflicting advice around.

I think of a good boss actually! Someone who has clear expectations of me and who is valuing and supportive and not punitive. Why would it be so different for kids?

Saying all that, I agree that social media and other factors mentioned also play a part

Yes this. The issues were always there, probably worse. We just didn’t diagnose it. We all drank, smoked weed, I had friends who self harmed or had eating disorders..but no one was diagnosed with anxiety.

@Riversideandrelax yes, it was actually a fairly common occurrence in my halls for students to be taken to hospital with alcohol poisoning or alcohol related injuries.

It's so much deeper than that though. Genuinely read "The Anxious Generation" as has been mentioned previously on this thread, the startling change in teenagers mental health since 2010s has been well documented and this book gives a really shocking insight into the reasons why, and the stats around it.

Well @BodyKeepingScore I would argue that there are just different problems now. Not that everything was great in the 'good old days'.

Totally agree with this. I regularly have to explain to student that being nervous about an exam or talking/ presenting in front of your tutorial group is normal. That some butterflies before a big moment is OK and transient and part of your bodies normal stress response.

Before I get jumped on for ignoring kids with actual anxiety disorders I am a neuroscientist who studies and understands the difference between a stress response to a short term stressor like an exam vs an anxiety disorder.

I think there's some middle ground.

I had a very tough childhood with harsh punishments, was outside from morning til night with friends and it made me a very anxious child. As a young adult, I played everything very safe as I had no safety net and the fear of failing and having no help was dreadful.

My kids have had a lovely childhood, with age appropriate supervision and boundaries but not we were fairly soft parents. My children behaved because they respected and liked us and saw we were fair and reasonable. I think that has helped them become confident and independent as they've got older. They're not afraid to try new things because they know we're here if needed and they can come to us with anything.

Ah yes that wonderful free range childhood from the past - where children were killed or seriously injured in traffic at a massive rate (12,478 in 1979 to 1,980 in 2013 - down 84 per cent) despite less traffic

All that wonderful childhood independence where children were left alone to die or be permanently harmed through accidents in the home - burns, scalds, strangulation, electrocution

As well as the constant brutality from poor parenting and also at school which left adults with long term mental health concerns - see Nicky Campbell, Earl Spencer and quite frankly the majority of people who were beaten and humiliated as children to control them through fear and shame.

I think people have a rose tinted view of the past. It was pretty crap from what I remember as a child.

Parents barely parented, didn't give a toot about your development and slapped you silly for no good reason other than they were having a bad day and you'd looked at them wrong.

We are better parents now. We're not perfect but it would be great if we focused on developing skills as parents rather than looking back to a past that I think is best forgotten.

That's a really interesting point. Could it be something to do with mothers bringing up their babies until school age as it was done in the past. These days kids are brought up by nurseries or minders. Could be something In that

So we can all live long lives sitting on computer games then?

Life gets harder for many as you become middle aged. At this age you often have parents who need care or they have died. Health issues can start, especially if you have smoked and drunk too much. Lots of men who live unhealthy lives get heart issues at this age. People in ordinary jobs start getting side lined about this age and seen as too old. Lots of people have teenagers at this age with the more complex issues they can bring. And if your life is missing key things you wanted such as a partner or children or a well paid job, you know you are unlikely now to achieve this.
This is also the generation that grew up during Thatcher and in disadvantaged areas left school into record unemployment levels.

The irony in this post !!!!!! This is exactly why kids are anxious these days.

We are told we need to constantly stimulate our children. In reality I think most children are over stimulated.

His theory is that we are interrupting normal development opportunities for kids brains, and therefore they’re not properly developing. He thinks we intervene too much in perfectly ordinary learning opportunities, like playground disagreements, and our quest to make sure our children never feel challenged or upset is actually making them more anxious.

Back in the day on mn there'd be numerous posts about allowing children at various ages to go and do something on their own. There would be one brigade that said yes let them and another saying no. Often the "no" would counter argue that not allowing them didn't stunt their growth and they could learn these things later at age 16 etc no harm would come. The "yes" agreed that they need to be left alone to learn how to cope, know where to find help etc

Ive read similar today in the news about anxiety and allowing children to actually play out, do things for themselves.

I do think that todays 20s are 3 or 4 generations ago teens in maturity. Im not sure that the anxiety and mental health is connected or not though

We have loosely followed 'the Danish parenting' way since DD1 (now 16) was around 8 and for DD2 (7) since birth. They are both NT. DH and I are both fairly laid back as parents - we don't use physical punishment EVER but I am a shouter.

DD2 is happy and loves being outdoors. She loves imaginative play, board games, being present and until about 6 month ago wasn't really interested in screens. We notice a change in her behaviour when she's played too much roblox or watched a lot of YouTube.

DD1 is pretty much a moody teenager- an international phenomenon! She's been lucky to have good mental health and a lot of emotional resilience.

I work in the education field and I would say that 25-40% of primary children have poor parenting - it directly impacts behaviour in the classroom. I'm not sure about the link with SEN and parenting though- for the most part the SEN parents I have met are some of the best parents and absolutely committed to their children accessing as much of the curriculum as possible.

So we can all live long lives sitting on computer games then?

I don't think that's what that poster is saying at all. I think you know that.

My memories of kids in thd 80s/90s was that they were basically feral and never listened to. There was very little thought put into parenting.

If you use the knowledge available now, give age appropriate supervision that encourages independence, have boundaries but not smack your kids, listen and give choices where possible. gave a mix of outdoorsy stuff and screens etc, then your kids will likely do well.

Extremes either way are never good.

Yes, it is important for children to be bored. That's when they make up their own games, they use logic and decision making skills. Or they read a book (also lacking in lots of primary aged children's day!)

@Rainbowsponge Not at all.

Being outside is absolutely vital to children - for their vision, for building their muscles, understanding the world,

But it needs supervision - accidents will happen, but there has to be some management of risks (including helping the children to learn to do this)

Our children need play and lots of it - not on computer games, but with each other, on their own and occasionally with us.

Parents need to be supported to develop positive skills in parenting, especially those of us who had poor role models from our own parents.

Children are people who are in progress - we need to understand their development and how we communicate, support and lead them.

Authorative parenting is what we aim for - parents make it clear where the boundaries are in society through firm, kind communication and through role modelling.

It would be helpful if all adults in society showed our children and young people the right way to behave.

I taught a class of 7 year olds recently, where the pshe lesson called for them to choose their 'top worry' from a long list. They did it anonymously, but 90% said 'mental health'. Over things like 'nobody to play with'. Where are young children picking up the language of depression, anxiety and diagnosing themselves with adhd?

They are never allowed to feel discomfort or hear the word no. Parents tell me a spelling test is 'affecting her mental health' and 'causing anxiety.' I don't think school is more damaging. I think kids are taught that they can't cope with normal challenges and difficulties.

@whyhavetheygotsomany I'm baffled - you think children are anxious because we are not shaming an hurting them or leaving them to be killed in traffic or home accidents?