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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

383 replies

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 18:47

My friend’s husband is a professional in the area of child development and education. He’s taught at numerous schools, SEN schools and is now a researcher. He doesn’t have children, but I do, and yesterday we were talking about the seeming increase in children with anxiety, mental health issues and what he described as ‘delayed adulthood’.

He’s British but his extended family are from India, and he said visits to see them make a striking contrast between how our children are raised and how theirs are raised. He said children are sort of left to run around in packs and find their own amusement from quite a young age, and as a result they seem more mature and confident.

His theory is that we are interrupting normal development opportunities for kids brains, and therefore they’re not properly developing. He thinks we intervene too much in perfectly ordinary learning opportunities, like playground disagreements, and our quest to make sure our children never feel challenged or upset is actually making them more anxious.

He also thinks softer, more modern punishments are bewildering children and reinforcing bad behaviour, leaving them confused about right and wrong. Children read facial expressions, so seeing us look calm/unbothered rather than angry/disappointed when they’ve done something wrong is counterproductive and blocks them from naturally learning human behaviour and socialisation.

I’m not professing to be a perfect parent at all, but it was a really interesting chat and I want to discuss it further!

OP posts:
Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:55

Riversideandrelax · 07/07/2024 20:53

I agree. So much is labelled gentle parenting when it really is not.

But it’s all very well saying ‘but that’s not gentle parenting…’ when, in practical terms, everyone that purports to gentle parent has badly behaved children?

OP posts:
Southlondoner88 · 07/07/2024 20:58

Totally agree and I work in CAMHS, also I have completed research on similar topics. Authoritative parenting has been shown to be the most beneficial for children’s overall wellbeing and development. That’s mixing firm boundaries/ discipline with connection, responsiveness. High demand/ expectations are also part of this parenting style. Not sure about the not letting children play independently but I’m sure he’s onto something, Esther Perel who doesn’t work in child dev but is a genius when it comes to relationships/ families said something similar in her podcast about this, the lack of independent, outdoor play.

Crumpleton · 07/07/2024 21:00

I'm a great believer in that children should experience boredom, builds character, it seems now for a lot of DC that every waking minute of their day if not in school is filled with some type of club or activity that's been arranged for them.

Children should at times be left to just take a minute and find their own entertainment...or just rest and relax, even as an adult most like some time to just sit and gather their thoughts.

CelesteCunningham · 07/07/2024 21:01

onemorerose · 07/07/2024 20:27

This is very interesting, any tips or books to promote resilience in children?

I have zero scientific backup for this, but I'm guessing: let them fail.

Let them get in trouble for refusing to do their homework, let them forget their PE gear, let them get cold if they refuse to bring a coat (age appropriate obviously, not toddlers!). All those small little fuck ups help them learn and problem solve.

JaninaDuszejko · 07/07/2024 21:01

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:13

I’m not sure if it makes a difference but they live very rurally on farms.

But a rural childhood has always been very different from an urban childhood. I grew up on a farm in the 70s/80s whereas DH (same age) grew up in a city. Both v ery middle class childhoods. I went to a state school, he went to a private school. I was able to run wild with my siblings over a large area without ever leaving the farm, we would play in the loch, build dens in old chicken sheds out of sight of the house, constantly started fires, went to the shore with my cousins without adult supervision, cycle for miles on quiet roads. Basically my childhood was an Enid Blyton novel without the criminals printing money in a cave. DH seems to have spent his entire childhood watching black and white films on BBC2 (his middle class area definitely didn't have children playing in the streets and he didn't learn to ride a bike until he was a teenager). But we both seem to be functional adults.

There's a lot of worry about social media but as long as your kids have enough real life social interaction then social media is just a tool rather than taking over. It's all about balance, and not fearing the new unnecessarily, the Georgians worried about girls reading too many of the new fangled novels whereas now we think ofthat as a positive thing.

Riversideandrelax · 07/07/2024 21:02

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:55

But it’s all very well saying ‘but that’s not gentle parenting…’ when, in practical terms, everyone that purports to gentle parent has badly behaved children?

Not in my experience. As I said earlier it's the harsh parents who have the terribly behaved children. I've never punished my children and the really well behaved. Never had any trouble at school, other parents all say how well behaved they are and still waiting for all the 'teen issues' with my 17yo that other parents seem to think are normal. I mean the parents in your example may think they are 'gentle parenting' but they really are not!

Investinmyself · 07/07/2024 21:03

I’m a volunteer girlguiding leader and there’s been a massive change in last couple of years re parents.
We put them in mixed age groups. Some activities it’s do with friends, some it’s do with your group.
The reason is otherwise we end up with a group of 10 year old and a group of 13 year olds and it encourages mixing and making new friends. Given we are in an area where kids go to several secondary schools knowing kids from different schools really helps.
It’s only part of each session in groups, sometimes not at all so still plenty of time to chat to best friends.
We get x needs to be in a group with her friend, y isn’t coming as her friend isn’t coming, we had someone leave as we wouldn’t put two in same group.
Some parents don’t seem to see the bigger picture that micromanaging friends like this isn’t helpful in long run.
Even a few years ago parents wouldn’t dream of emailing brown owl over minor stuff like this now it’s prevalent.

Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 21:07

I think modern parenting is probably on average less damaging to kids.

To reason:

In the past straight up child abuse as much more common. Kids were locked in rooms, starved, beaten up, cops would consider it a "domestic" and not a problem.

These days if a kid has a bruise it's reported to social services by school, everyone is encouraged to report potential child abuse.

In the past sexual abuse of children was extremely common. Children who talked about it to adults were straight up disbelieved. "Uncle Charlie wouldn't do that sort of thing how dare you say that about him". See all the church child abuse scandals, jimmy savile etc.

It still happens but schools and the police are trained now and are (supposed to) believe the kid and investigate on the basis of what they say.

Serious physical abuse, starvation, broken bones, and sexual abuse are much worse than anxiety.

So I suspect on average parenting now is less damaging to children overall.

Cuppapuppa · 07/07/2024 21:08

I think there is too much pressure in schools tbh & the curriculum is too narrow.

itsgettingweird · 07/07/2024 21:09

I don't think it's about needing extremely strict punishments either. I think zero tolerance in schools is just as damaging.

Children need natural consequences but parents seem to have a desire to pretext their offspring from these in case of "anxiety".

I also think all these class dojos etc are damaging. Allow kids to push boundaries safely at school and teachers to deal with it. I think teachers would get more respect from kids if they didn't run to their largest every time their skirt is too shirt or they forgot a pen.

We need a massive reset in attitudes.

Cuppapuppa · 07/07/2024 21:09

Let them get in trouble for refusing to do their homework, let them forget their PE gear, let them get cold if they refuse to bring a coat (age appropriate obviously, not toddlers!). All those small little fuck ups help them learn and problem solve.

Do parents really not do these things?

itsgettingweird · 07/07/2024 21:10

Cuppapuppa · 07/07/2024 21:09

Let them get in trouble for refusing to do their homework, let them forget their PE gear, let them get cold if they refuse to bring a coat (age appropriate obviously, not toddlers!). All those small little fuck ups help them learn and problem solve.

Do parents really not do these things?

No - many parents will dispute a consequence for from getting PE kits.

But then again if I forgot mine the teachers dealt with it without informing my parents!

whyhavetheygotsomany · 07/07/2024 21:11

Yes I agree. Kids are so molly coddled these days. The old days where kids played outside all day and weren't fussed over all the time! They had resilience not many kids have any now. Even young adults at uni refuse to get a job because their parents baby them and pay for everything it's just ridiculous

soupfiend · 07/07/2024 21:11

Yes he is right OP, the list of concerns is endless

Teaching and enabling a sense of entitlement and instant gratification by overuse of screens
Never wanting children to be upset, disappointed, sad, frustrated, bored, hungry
Wanting to the child's friend
Risk averse
A narrative which has taken hold (see it a lot on here) that the young adult cant be held responsible for things or take responsbility for things because 'brain development' (too long to explain but this is not the case, I try to challenge this nonsense every thread I see it on)
Poor diet and lack of exercise
A wider sense of 'specialness' rather than being one of the crowd/not different/same as everyone else
Pathologising of normal human emotions and avoidance of normal human emotions

BlueyDragon · 07/07/2024 21:12

itsgettingweird · 07/07/2024 20:45

Absolutely.

Kids never feel worried, nervous, unsure.

It's "anxiety".

It's become something "bad" to be worried. Something that needs to have a fuss made. It's become abnormal to feel worried but yet it's a perfectly normal feeling that can be overcome with resilience skills - something else severely lacking in our younger generation.

It's not that I don't believe in anxiety. My own autistic son suffered badly for a period of time with it and was under camhs. But I've also spent a lot of time normalising with him how feeling worried is normal. It's about finding ways to deal with it and overcome it.

I also think it demonises the real struggles for those with actual anxiety if it's a catch all for word for "worried".

Tbh I blame Covid for some of it. For some of our children, at the very point that developmentally they should have been pulling away we made them stay at home in fear. There’s a lot to overcome in that, and conventional parenting doesn’t have the answers for that either.

Increased awareness of neurodivergence is both hindering and helping. ND kids are not always challenged, when actually they have the same challenges as NT kids that they need to get over, plus the additional ones their ND presents.

Have spent the last three years finding out the extent of my ND teen’s challenges, helping them recover from the burnout of the challenges we’d thought would help them and getting them through GCSEs, I don’t think the 1950s feral/disciplined approach or the full blown hurt prevention version works. It’s all a work in progress and there aren’t right and wrong answers here.

Dymaxion · 07/07/2024 21:13

I think some of the issues can be linked to parental anxiety ? There is so much pressure now, on providing your children with the 'right' stuff, being seen to parent in a certain way, making sure they tick the 'experience' and 'making memories' boxes ? Add in social media and screen time and its the perfect storm !
When I was growing up in the 70's , if I told my parents that so and so had something I didn't or was allowed to do something I wasn't, I would be given short shrift, they were very much the ' I don't care what X's parents allow them to do, its not happening' or the very reasonable 'we can't afford that' .
I did however have a lot of freedom to roam, what felt to me at the time as a quite a large area, but which looking back was less than a normal sized housing estate. We fell out a lot, but no parents intervened, you might go home and sulk for a bit, but usually got bored and gave that up as a bad job and went back out to make up and carry on playing. The biggest difference was the amount of traffic, there were no cars parked on the street, everyone had a drive and I can count on one hand the number of people who had more than one car.
One thing you didn't do was to tell your parents you had been in trouble at school, this would mean two lots of telling off and simply wasn't worth it, same if you got told off while playing out, you just took it and hoped word didn't get back to your parents !

DS2 will occasionally come home from secondary school with tales of unfair reprimands by teachers, we have a little chat about this and how sometimes you get a bollocking for things that aren't your fault ( I explain that, that will happen all the way through life ) but you need to remember the times you didn't and probably should have, so you need to take a ' rough with the smooth' approach. I also remind him that the teacher is there to teach the whole class, and while he might not think his occasional bad behaviour is too heinous, it is actually disruptive, so the children who actually enjoy the subject are missing out because of him. To be fair to him, he does take this onboard and his teachers seem to like him, if his parent's evenings and reports are anything to go by.

soupfiend · 07/07/2024 21:13

Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 21:07

I think modern parenting is probably on average less damaging to kids.

To reason:

In the past straight up child abuse as much more common. Kids were locked in rooms, starved, beaten up, cops would consider it a "domestic" and not a problem.

These days if a kid has a bruise it's reported to social services by school, everyone is encouraged to report potential child abuse.

In the past sexual abuse of children was extremely common. Children who talked about it to adults were straight up disbelieved. "Uncle Charlie wouldn't do that sort of thing how dare you say that about him". See all the church child abuse scandals, jimmy savile etc.

It still happens but schools and the police are trained now and are (supposed to) believe the kid and investigate on the basis of what they say.

Serious physical abuse, starvation, broken bones, and sexual abuse are much worse than anxiety.

So I suspect on average parenting now is less damaging to children overall.

You're equating the average parenting 'years ago' to abusive parenting?

Why?

(this is the exact problem by the way)

FriedGold · 07/07/2024 21:14

Sosorryliver · 07/07/2024 19:14

It was a pretty rough estate tbf. I’ve often said I was self raised like bread. I’m sure other people had more supervision but people would take dogs down to the bottom of the stairs (we lived in flats) and shoo them out for a walk. Pretty much the same with children. I used to walk to the local library ( maybe a mile and a half) and spend hours reading. No one knew where I was.

Is that you, Matilda?

Cuppapuppa · 07/07/2024 21:14

When I was growing up in the 70's , if I told my parents that so and so had something I didn't or was allowed to do something I wasn't, I would be given short shrift, they were very much the ' I don't care what X's parents allow them to do, its not happening' or the very reasonable 'we can't afford that'

Lots of parents still do the above though.

Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 21:16

@soupfiend

No.

I'm saying that years ago, some parenting was very bad, some was bad, some was muddling and some was good.

Now, a lot of the very bad parenting doesn't happen as much.

So there's actually less damage being done to kids.

whyhavetheygotsomany · 07/07/2024 21:17

Octavia64 · 07/07/2024 20:42

Kids are a lot more alive than they used to be.

Under 5 death rate

www.statista.com/statistics/1041714/united-kingdom-all-time-child-mortality-rate/

Child death rate over time

stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mortality/child-mortality/

How much anxiety is one alive kid worth?

So should we lock our kids up then ? To keep them alive ? How ridiculous. Kids arnt living If they arnt given freedom to develop and grow their own personalities.

Cuppapuppa · 07/07/2024 21:17

The idea that people in the past didn’t have mental health issues is nonsense

LGBirmingham · 07/07/2024 21:17

This is very interesting. I have be wondering how to parent to encourage resilience. This is not meant as a brag, in fact I wonder if there is something wrong with me, but I am personally very resilient. I just keep on keeping on. I'm not really sure why. There were things in my childhood that should make life a lot harder for me, they probably do in some ways and I carry sadness about it, but I've also been adamant that I don't want anyone feeling sorry for me. Generally I just pick myself up and carry on. I don't think anyone would advocate for all aspects of my upbringing as anything to emulate. But how do you foster resilience in children?

soupfiend · 07/07/2024 21:18

Rainbowsponge · 07/07/2024 20:01

A couple of my friends are ‘in therapy’ for… what would objectively be called quite low level life stresses. From what they’ve said they’re not actually that upset but having mentioned it once or twice to others they’ve been encouraged to ‘get counselling’ so they dutifully have.

Oh god, thats another thing that drives me round the bend on here, every other poster advising an OP 'have you thought about therapy' or normally 'has he thought about therapy'

Mainly for things that are just likes and dislikes, personality, personal quirks

I think I mentioned on a thread that my OH wont eat things after the use by/sell by date and has been known to chuck food out before that 'just in case', and of course the inevitable 'he needs therapy' (he probably does but not because of that!)

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