Is modern parenting damaging to kids?

[Rainbowsponge]

My friend’s husband is a professional in the area of child development and education. He’s taught at numerous schools, SEN schools and is now a researcher. He doesn’t have children, but I do, and yesterday we were talking about the seeming increase in children with anxiety, mental health issues and what he described as ‘delayed adulthood’.

He’s British but his extended family are from India, and he said visits to see them make a striking contrast between how our children are raised and how theirs are raised. He said children are sort of left to run around in packs and find their own amusement from quite a young age, and as a result they seem more mature and confident.

His theory is that we are interrupting normal development opportunities for kids brains, and therefore they’re not properly developing. He thinks we intervene too much in perfectly ordinary learning opportunities, like playground disagreements, and our quest to make sure our children never feel challenged or upset is actually making them more anxious.

He also thinks softer, more modern punishments are bewildering children and reinforcing bad behaviour, leaving them confused about right and wrong. Children read facial expressions, so seeing us look calm/unbothered rather than angry/disappointed when they’ve done something wrong is counterproductive and blocks them from naturally learning human behaviour and socialisation.

I’m not professing to be a perfect parent at all, but it was a really interesting chat and I want to discuss it further!

I disagree. My friends and I talk a lot about building resilience. I feel like we're the opposite. Pushing pushing pushing. All the extra curricular on the basis it's good for them.

In my experience, a lot of parents are quite codependent with their children, you only have to look at the mummy and mini-me fashion trends - the difference between parent and friend is too blurred...

I really worry about this with my son. He’s got no siblings and he’s very “easy” generally. He’s basically never been in trouble in his life! He has lots of friends over and goes to see other children but all parent arranged (he’s 9).

Im aware I sound a bit nuts but I honestly wonder how he’s going to handle adversity later on. It’s not like I can manufacture some!

Yes over programming and too much extra curricular is an issue in some circles too.

The public transport thing is quite a big one I think.

I was getting the bus home the day I started secondary school. Obviously didn't have mobile phones. I remember the first time the bus didn't stop as was too full, then the next one didn't turn up. Was obviously upset, but I walked back to school to use the pay phone (parents always gave me a 10p for this reason!), phoned my parents, but for whatever reason, they wouldn't or couldn't pick me up. Told me to go back to the bus stop and wait for the next one, which I did.

Nowadays, I know several parents whose children have been driven to and from school until at least year 8. They have mobiles, so can contact their parents at the slightest sign of trouble, so no need to work things out for themselves. Can guarantee none will have had to wait an hour+ for a bus home!

I work full time in a professional environment. I'm sure my kids will have rolled on the floor in Waitrose because sometimes I want to roll on the floor.

I'm absolutely knackered working full time and constantly thinking about work. And yeah sometimes I cannot be arsed.

90% of the time I would be an A Grade parent. But 10% of the time I just want to walk off or sit on the floor next to them and let them just have a minute.

60s kid here. We did have much more freedom but had much firmer boundaries. I can't imagine behaving like some kids nowadays, disrupting classes, swearing at teachers, attacking parents, we knew what the consequences would be so most of us were wise enough not to do it.
Children have so much more now, materially,
New toys every week, outings every weekend, eating out, takeaways, things that in the past were an annual treat, as people just didn't have the money to spare. No screens (obviously) and a very small amount of kids TV programmes. We were encouraged to play out and use our imaginations, which we did. Never heard of mental health problems, everyone went to school every day, either voluntarily or frogmarched by the scruff of the neck.
We did as we were told, any backchat and a thick ear was likely. "Gentle parenting" didn't exist. Once we left school we were expected to get a job and pay our way. I messed around at school and didn't do well in my gces. My dad's words still ringing in my ears 50 years on: "you better get a job because we are not keeping you. You will be out the door"
My kids went to school 90s/mid 00s when there was still a modicum of discipline in schools, but the rot was starting to set in slowly by then.
I worry for my grandchildren and what kind of world has been created for them. Knives in schools, lax attitude to drugs, kids in gangs terrorising neighbourhoods. Complete absence of any kind of discipline. Parents too busy on tiktok to actually know or care what their kids are doing.
We reap what we sow, sadly x

Either way, whatever the right way is, it’s hard to get the balance right / especially if you don’t live in some rural idyll where all the kids can run wild.

I never really shout at my DC, try to have boundaries and a lot of freedom between those. But say when DC starts being rude to one of my friends, and couldn’t care less what I say to them and keeps it up - what is the answer?

Usually mine has needed little redirection, but lately is pushing the boundaries that to be honest, I find difficult to hold - without absolutely losing my sh&t - which does work in the short term, but seems a weak thing for me to do. It’s a minefield. One that mums are typically blamed for getting wrong too!

I work with young people and have done for years.

I agree with him.

Children who use SM so much nowadays don't see a human response to their words. They don't experience so much what affect their behaviour and words have on others. When they do they haven't learned how to manage that.

All behaviour is communication - however I find there's more increase in using it to excuse poor behaviour rather than "I understand you were cross but you can't hit X". Then working on helping the child respond appropriately to upset.

I've actually watched parents witness their child hurt another but when their child cried at what they've done actually deny it and gaslight everyone around them into feeling sorry for their child. It's nuts!

Learning to risk assess teaches resilience which is a necessary life skill.

Interesting reading! I feel the same having been on a WhatsApp group recently for children doing Duke of Edinburgh expeditions. The worrying! The concern! The helicopter parenting! These children are 14 not 4!

There was one parent who clearly felt the same and did a parody anonymous post. It was hilarious.

But seriously, I was concerned for some of these children whose parents were so over worried about their weekend away. This was in the Peak District in June, not the Scottish highlands in January!

I always used to think an adult was the product of 50% nature and 50% nurture. However as I get older I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion it's 75% nature and 25% nurture.
All kids are different, the skill of the parent is responding to their child in the most appropriate way for their child. I have one easy teen, and one errr more challenging! They've both come from the same gene pool, but some genes have come out stronger from grandparents and parents, resulting in two very different personalities!
I don't like the term 'separation anxiety' I think it's trying to pathologise something which is a perfectly natural response for some children, who aren't ready to be away from their parent / care giver; other children are absolutely ready and enjoy being away from their home! I don't understand why we insist in the 'one size fits all' and have to start making it an issue, when some kids don't 'fit the standard'.

I also think the increase in anxiety is like the increase in ASD and ADHD, we just recognise it more, and take it seriously (which is a good thing), I remember at my school one of my friends being told they were an attention seeking so and so, when they started self harming...they finally took their own life at 15. I'd like to think we're better at understanding mental health now, than back in the 70/80/90s.

I love Naomi Fisher.

I find this such an interesting subject! From my eldest’s (7yo) peer group there seems to be a correlation between children who are allowed ‘online freedoms’ (unrestricted YouTube access, some access to SM etc) and higher anxiety. Compared to my own child and other friend’s kids who are allowed more freedom in the real world, who are all quite self sufficient kids, are confident and have a level of competence the ‘iPad’ kids don’t exhibit. I’m not sure if I’ve worded this correctly!
I know when I spend too much time on TikTok listening to how dangerous London is becoming my anxiety spikes, but my actual experience of living in London is that it’s much the same as it’s always been. If I can let that fear in as a 30 something, a teen is going to be so much more susceptible. We plan on not giving our kids smart phone until their mid teens, they don’t need the internet in their pocket.

I frequently see mums where I live walking around holding the hands of their teenage daughters. It always surprises me as at that age I think I would have rather dropped dead. The infantilising approach to parenting is ultimately quite selfish. Your teenager is supposed to find you boring and annoying, they're supposed to want to venture out with their friends not stay at home with their mum. It's part of growing up!

One of my friends was really babied by her mum and ended up dropping out of uni in the first term as she was so homesick. She lived at home until she was 28 at which point she met her now husband. We're in our late thirties now and she still deals with quite bad anxiety which I'm sure is because she was so coddled as a child.

Kids are a lot more alive than they used to be.

Under 5 death rate

www.statista.com/statistics/1041714/united-kingdom-all-time-child-mortality-rate/

Child death rate over time

stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/mortality/child-mortality/

How much anxiety is one alive kid worth?

This is so interesting. I feel pretty powerless to do anything about it though?

@RosieAway I can relate to this! It's really hard. I generally do try to "gentle parent" although that gets a bad rap on here - but I also think a lot of the examples derided as "gentle parenting" on MN are actually permissive parenting. To me gentle parenting is less about being your child's friend and more about treating them with respect. Gentle parenting should still be authoritative parenting IMO.
But it is really hard to know what to do when they're really pushing boundaries and you don't want to resort to physical violence, but they're not responding to redirection or a firm telling off.... I also just end up losing my shit and it does feel weak. I think it just shows that you've lost control. I don't respect bosses who've lost their tempers and shouted at me, and I don't imagine it inspires respect in my kids when I lose my shit at them either. I'm not sure what the answer is.

Absolutely.

Kids never feel worried, nervous, unsure.

It's "anxiety".

It's become something "bad" to be worried. Something that needs to have a fuss made. It's become abnormal to feel worried but yet it's a perfectly normal feeling that can be overcome with resilience skills - something else severely lacking in our younger generation.

It's not that I don't believe in anxiety. My own autistic son suffered badly for a period of time with it and was under camhs. But I've also spent a lot of time normalising with him how feeling worried is normal. It's about finding ways to deal with it and overcome it.

I also think it demonises the real struggles for those with actual anxiety if it's a catch all for word for "worried".

Anyone who says parenting in India is better is suspect. Most parents don’t have time to parent there. Most kids are left to their own devices (ignored) or punished. No middle ground. This running around in packs is why violent rapes are increasing - as young men are literally picking off women in packs.

I don’t know his to think about this. I could look back at my freewheeling childhood with rose tinted glasses but the truth is that five of the gang of kids on my street died before the age of 35 through drugs or suicide.
Mental health issues are nothing new. Difference today is that people talk about it a lot more. There was no counselling when I was a teen/young adult. I could have done with it! My mother’s mental health issues completely fucked up my teens and I feel sorry for that girl when I look back on my life. I recently read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and it was a real eye opener. So many messed up adults going around who were fucked up by their parents. It’s not a 2020s issue, not by a long shot.

I do think that feelings can be pathologised quickly with young people and it’s up to us to determine the difference between anxiety everyone feels and an actual disorder that impacts day to day functioning.

My 12 yo DS is a sensitive sort but sport was always non negotiable. He’s involved in three different teams and takes the highs with the lows. Deals with disappointment and on the odd occasion he’s not arsed about training, he’s sent along anyway.
He has a phone but it’s very well supervised and we’ve had long chats about potential bullying and dangers on social media.

Neither of those examples are gentle parenting, tbf

I don’t know, what’s the point in life at all if you’re miserable?

Huh? Of course she could have that sort of day in England! Reading your post I was thinking, yes this sounds like the childhood my kids have - in England. Very normal around where I live in anyway .

I agree. So much is labelled gentle parenting when it really is not.

You need to read 'The Coddling of the American Mind'