To think prison reform wasn't the top of most voters agenda?

[malificent7]

I get it is important due to overcrowding but I'm a bit surprised this is one of the first topics in the headlines.
I am all for youth hubs to target knife crime....excellent idea but releasing lots of prisoners who apparently shouldn't be there will give Reform lots of ammunition what do you think?

This.

The Tories did so much damage to the CJS.
Shabana Mahmood (new secretary of state for justice) gave a speech to civil servants this morning and publicly stated that one of her priorities was tackling violence against women and girls. Something we should all be concerned about.

It remains to be seen how successful Labour will be in their endeavours but at least they are taking the issues seriously and not ignoring it like the Tories did.

And yet this is often linked to bigger issues - impoverished families (hard for kids to concentrate on an empty stomach), abusive families (hard to study when bruised or having seen your mum beaten up or either parent drunk every night), undiagnosed and unsupported SEN or learning difficulties, disengaged parents who won't read with their kids because they don't see the point....

Then there's the kids who miss huge swathes of school for multiple complex reasons and yet if you look at the other thread about rhe new Education Secretary wanting to increase attendance at school, you'd think that was an unreasonable expectation by government.

Currently 20% of kids are completely falling through the cracks with persistently absence and that's just awful.

If this government can look at it holistically - health, education, employment, family support and through to the criminal justice system, then surely good things can come of that?

@DancingLions yes,I rather enjoyed the jibe about the last 14yrs and knowing we couldn't comment on them but she could 😂

@ButtSurgery

yes that did make me chuckle too 😂
We’ll see how it all pans out but she sounded enthusiastic and committed.

@ButtSurgery i completely agree.

I'd like to reiterate however how our reading system and dogged connection to phonics like a religion is also holding our children back.
Many of these families do have sen and undiagnosed sen and they are cut off from education very early, year 1 and year 2 are critical years. If their parents are similarly cut off how can they support their children dc.
Self esteem can be damaged by this age. Self esteem can lead to drug and crime problems.
As pp said on a thread about attendance, why not tackle the reasons why rather than beat families with a stick.

For all the reasons you have just listed.

• and unfortunately, nothing has been said in the campaign that leads me to think they will look at it holistically or that they under stand the root causes.

I cheered when I heard James Timpson had been appointed. I've followed his business for years. I admire his stance on employing ex cons and he champions work for children with trauma. Provides holiday homes for his employees and lets you have your birthday off each year, as well as the first day of school for your child.

I wish more CEOs took his lead.

Very much needed!

I work in a Victorian jail.... it's filthy and infested! No point throwing any more money at it but we just have to make do

The last government made so many decisions based on populism. Johnson would only do anything if he thought the public would love him for it. I could just imagine him waving prison reform aside with “I can’t do that, people don’t want it; and anyway, I’m busy getting Brexit done. How do you spell “Rwanda” again?”

We desperately need a government that makes some “unpopular” decisions, rather than one which is constantly trying to appease the masses, leaking to the press what they “might” do, to test the reaction. We need one that makes bold decisions because they think it’s right, not the because they think the public thinks so.

Seriously. I’m not a Labour voter (for specific reasons) but you only have to read their manifesto to see that they see the bigger picture and understand the root causes of many of our problems.
To engage in the democratic process, you should make an effort to find things out for yourself.

@borntobequiet thank you for that advice
I had a skim read and I've listened to many of them being interviewed and not once esp from education secretary did I hear her say anything I agree with or thought "at last `°

Yes I thought brilliant. Timpson actually walks the walk on helping those with convictions. Better than the usual ingrate who just wants to “lock up and throw away the key” who ends up getting the brief under the Tories.

It’s a tough job and I hope he sticks with it. Being a minister who actually tries is hard. It is a lot easier to take the money and do the sound bites.

He understands trauma and the effect it has on childhood. How being in the care system means most care leavers are already screwed before they start life.

He's not only going to champion sorting the prison system, but also champion preventative work that supports people not committing crime in the first place, as he understands the reasons why young people turn to crime.

A massive job. I too hope he sticks with it. Massive society change is coming if he does. No pressure!

I don't have a problem with reducing prison population by reducing crime. But as long as there is crime, prisons should be full. To keep law-abiding people safe.

@OonaStubbs they will always be full! A few out early on early release is not even making a massive difference yet! For every one going there seems to be 2 more coming in!

Whether top or not, it's pretty important. Glad to see it getting a high profile.

The government needs to do what is good for the country, not govern by knee-jerk reactions to Daily Mail stories or people who can't find their arse with two hands and vote Reform want.

Good governance is not all about voter reactions to issues. That's just populism.

YABU.

No, of course prison reform wasn't at "the top" of most voters' agendas. Most voters probably don't even think about the shoddy state of our prison/ justice system. It's no surprise that Starmer actually had some good ideas about tackling some of these problems.

And just because newspaper editors choose to make headlines about an issue doesn't mean it's an actual administrative priority.

Don't know if anyone else has seen it, but David Challen, son of Sally Challen, has posted a very interesting Twitter thread about the idea of converting women's prisons to the male estate and managing female prisoners within an alternative environment - obviously the small number of women deemed a danger to the public would still be held in a regular prison.

https://x.com/David_Challen/status/1810656391754903598

David Challen is a wonderful proponent for action on DA and VAWG.

Unfortunately the female estate only has about 3200 places which is less than 5% of all beds in the E&W estate. Whilst it would be an interesting piece of work for the benefit of female offenders, it won't take much pressure off the men's in a timely fashion.

The fixes need to be in place this week or next - swingeing changes to the CJS are needed, but knee jerk responses have the potential to be catastrophic. The prison govs and national committees at HMPPS and MOJ have plans in place but the prev government basically threw in the towel last year on this issue.

Just looked up the figures, according to the Prison Reform Trust there were 3,604 women in prison in October 2023, projected to reach 3,800 by November this year. Not a huge difference I grant you.

https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/six-in-10-women-sent-to-prison-serve-sentences-of-less-than-six-months/#:~:text=The%20women's%20prison%20population%20on,to%203%2C800%20by%20November%202024.

Fair enough, but still a drop in the ocean in terms of fixing the long term issues. Men's and women's estates are managed separately, and for a sea change in sentencing for women to be applied would take serious consultation.

I'd be surprised if it would pass the equality / discrimination assessments tbh and would surely leave the MOJ hugely open to claims from men.

Definitely one they need to add to the list for a review though, it needs to be a radical change.

You need the same test for men and women regarding who gets custody. But it seems for a lot of crime that women commit that they do not present a risk, nor are they a danger to the public which suggests detention.

It should not be forgotten that there are men in prison who also probably do not need to be there and do not present a risk.

We need a conversation about who gets sent to prison and why. I would start looking at any offender differently for violence and sexual offending. These crimes are prison cases not suspended sentences or community sentences. They are serious. And that should include domestic violence which is the main driver of many people going to prison. The majority of male prisoners grew up in abusive and violent homes.

Well this thread has gone quiet I wonder why.

I'm behind on the thread, so can you summarise why?