To think prison reform wasn't the top of most voters agenda?

[malificent7]

I get it is important due to overcrowding but I'm a bit surprised this is one of the first topics in the headlines.
I am all for youth hubs to target knife crime....excellent idea but releasing lots of prisoners who apparently shouldn't be there will give Reform lots of ammunition what do you think?

You can ‘reasons’ it all you like but it doesn’t make it any less true. Ideally those ‘reasons’ would be tackled before it got to the point of offending but the system doesn’t like to be proactive!

And what about the personal responsibility of the offenders? Should they have any responsibility to tackle the reasons??

It may not have been top of the priorities for the opening poster, it wasn't one of mine either, but I'd put money on it being on Sue Greys so called shit list. that is all the things that can happen in the opening days of the Labour government they'd need to handle. It was clear during the closing days of the Torys that the prisons were overcrowded.

Obviously the NHS has no link to the actions taken on the prison service. What people are puzzled about is why is this being prioritised above other more important issues? Why’s this his first focus? And clearly longer sentences will mean hopefully less people committing crime due to the likelihood of a longer time inside. People mugging an elderly woman on her way to the shops (example apparently of a ‘low level’ crime mentioned by another poster), might actually reconsider their actions if they know they’re going to spend 5 years inside as opposed to a brief few months stay, which they receive now. The majority of offences are theft related, which represents 29% of the prison population, followed closely be fraud offences.

Yes, but they need to be provided with the access to the courses, training, rehabilitation etc in order to make change.

And clearly longer sentences will mean hopefully less people committing crime due to the likelihood of a longer time inside.

Have you got evidence to support this?

Because all the studies I've ever seen show the opposite - that longer sentences do not reduce crime. You can't just make a statement like that as if it's a fact, when really it's just "what you reckon".

There is a lot of research and evidence out there about what reduces crime rates, and it doesn't support your approach.

Why don't you look up some of the (copious amounts of) research and evidence? It sounds as though you'd be surprised.

Here's a recent article about some of the studies undertaken, but there's plenty of other info out there.

prisonreformtrust.org.uk/blog-stop-press-more-jail-time-not-a-deterrent/

I used to work in a prison and chatting to the inmates they thought that the first night in prison is the worst. They thought one night in prison would give a lot of offenders a time to have second thoughts.
Also not having a job on release leads to repeated criminal behaviour.

More than half of children in care have an criminal record by the age of 24 compared to 13% of the rest of the population (https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/blog/new-findings-on-how-children-in-care-interact-with-the-criminal-justice-system/ more interesting statistics there)

People in prison have higher rates of mental illness, infectious diseases and poor physical health - a worldwide study but it highlights key factors which need tackling https://www.psych.ox.ac.uk/news/people-in-prison-have-higher-rates-of-mental-illness-infectious-diseases-and-poor-physical-health-2013-new-study#:~:text=11.4%25%20had%20depression%2C%20as%20compared,disorder%20on%20entry%20to%20prison

Those from the most deprived areas 10 times more likely to end up in prison https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2684824-people-from-englands-most-deprived-areas-ten-times-more-likely-to-be-in-prison,-analysis-finds#:~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%20in,England%20(30%20per%20100%2C000).

these are just a few of the factors which feed into people ending up in the criminal justice system, it’s why work is needed across the board to tackle the issues to try to stop people getting a caught up in the system.

It’s such a complex situation and that’s why people like James Timpson who work so hard to try to break these vicious cycles play such a key role. If he can help extend these things and encourage more work in at risk communities then hopefully everyone will benefit in the long run.

Because all the studies I've ever seen show the opposite - that longer sentences do not reduce crime. well it does, because while they're in prison, they're not mugging/robbing/assaulting the general population, but that's not important to the bleeding hearts is it, all that matters is how the poor criminal feels, and hopefully they don't have to face any constructive for their actions because that's just not kind!

It is for black people in many Labour constituencies.

I think it's fair to say that if everyone with experience and knowledge of a field, gained through either practical experience/ involvement or research (e.g. James Timpson) disagrees with "what you reckon" - you're probably wrong.

Thank you. The only really independent survey linked-to in that article (from the Sentencing Council) is equivocal. Though it is firm in a conclusion that short sentences used as deterrent are ineffective, which I find unsurprising. Most of the international work looks at very long sentencing.

I have to say that I find the hoary old chestnut about deterrence by detection amusing. As is constantly pointed out, that all depends on punishment actually following detection.

HRTFT

Most people care about crime.

It's generally a top 5 concern for the majority of voters.

And what do you think happens to crime if the police take the Tories' advice and "arrest fewer criminals"?

Because the Tories have sat back for 14 years and just let the prisons fill up?

And what do you think a competent, grown up, give a shit government would do?

I suggest that given the current situation with prisons that something has to be done.

Worth pointing out that the number of inmates has doubled since Thatcher came to power

Tony Blair regretted not moving fast enough on all fronts after his win in 1997. He considered he had wasted three years. I think Starmer has learned from that, and is not wasting time.

Prison reform is never going to be popular but it needs to be done.

There is evidence that short custodial sentences encourage recidivism.

But you probably know better, I just used to be paid to write papers on this stuff. The system is fecked, the new Government has decided to take action. It might work out OK

Please say more

Just build more prisons and put prisoners to work to reduce costs.

At least read the thread. I hope you read everything you should have done when you were writing your papers.

I think they also need to invest in Sure Start again and set up youth clubs and youth workers

Keir Starmer knows what the causes of crime are so I expect that is part of the plan.

Just?

Where are we putting these prisons?
Who will be building them?
Who will staff them?
Who will pay for this?

They already do all the cleaning and most of the painting and cooking, plus grounds management (you've never seen such gorgeous gardens!) with supervision.

We can't exactly provide them all with toolkits to repair the doors and gates nor the keys to lock and unlock all prisoners now can we...

Every knife, screwdriver and other tool, ladder and other item that could be used as a weapon or to escape is accounted for umpteen times a day. It has to be.