To think prison reform wasn't the top of most voters agenda?

[malificent7]

I get it is important due to overcrowding but I'm a bit surprised this is one of the first topics in the headlines.
I am all for youth hubs to target knife crime....excellent idea but releasing lots of prisoners who apparently shouldn't be there will give Reform lots of ammunition what do you think?

I guess it's easier to build more prisons than to attempt to actually stop crime. And no it's not at the top of anyone's list of priorities.

This is a good explanation of how the problems came about:

How did we get into this mess?
These problems did not come out of the blue. In 2014, we published a briefing called Breaking Point, which revealed that 78 prisons were holding more people than they were designed to accommodate. We wrote: “Urgent action is needed to ease the strain on the prison system. The MoJ must take action to reduce the prison population and increase prison officer numbers.”
The prison population has almost doubled in the last 30 years. After a rapid increase in the 1990s and 2000s, it began to stabilise in the 2010s and decreased slightly during the Covid-19 pandemic, but it has since risen again to reach record heights.
This is not a response to rising crime – in fact, recorded crime has fallen – but a sign of how changes in sentencing policy, led by politicians, have had a dramatic impact. Prison sentences have been handed down more and more, and they have got longer and longer over time.
Campaigns calling for the creation of new offences, or the introduction of longer sentences, to address specific issues or problems have contributed to this shift. The impact of these campaigns can be far-reaching – when politicians make sentences longer for one crime, it often leads to calls for longer sentences for other crimes. And so it goes on.
A backlog of cases in the courts, which grew longer during the Covid-19 pandemic, has not helped. The number of people in prison on remand – awaiting trial or sentence – has reached its highest level for at least 50 years.
Meanwhile, the number of people who have been recalled to prison after being released has also reached a record high. Prisons overwhelmed by overcrowding are not preparing people for life outside, and there is insufficient support for people when they are released. Too often, we see people leaving prison without somewhere to live.

https://howardleague.org/why-are-prisons-overcrowded/#:~:text=A%20backlog%20of%20cases%20in,for%20at%20least%2050%20years.

I do wonder about the recorded crime stats. When you know that the police are v unlikely to investigate much crime (apart from what people say on Twitter, obvs 🙄) there must be a strong disincentive to report, unless you need a number for the insurance co.

I have my doubts about whether crime has actually fallen.

On the other hand, labour ran the campaign on the ming vase strategy where they basically said not much about anything.

And still won a walloping victory.

Imagine what they'll do when they have a strong track record and some bold policies for next time. While the Tories are still working out who to blame for Brexit being a pile of shite :)

Imagine what they'll do when they have a strong track record

Oh, it’s inevitable. 🙄

If you read up on Timpson's efforts in the prison reform area... he'd say that rehab in prison is just one part of successful strategy, that preventing future crime also means giving ex-offenders a clear pathway to becoming responsible citizens as soon as they are out. Only so much can be done to help them within the prison institution.

I make a point of patronising Timpson's shops since I heard JT interviewed on radio last year.

Just because it wasn’t top of my agenda doesn’t mean it isn’t important. It’s even more so due to the capacity crisis.
I was delighted to hear of James Timpson’s appointment and do hope he can make a reaf difference.

Maybe including disruptive ex offenders moving into your block and the housing association telling other tenants "you need to take your share"

Actually Maddy and @EternalSunshine19 there is a connection.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/legal_matters/5104407-housing-association-landlord-refusing-to-deal-with-dangerous-neighbour?page=1

I think it's excellent that the new government are prioritising this. There aren't many votes in prison reform but a civilised country deals properly with people who commit crimes.

Non-violent criminals do not generally need to be in jail with a few exceptions eg short sharp sentences for contempt of court or perjury (I know a pp said sentences shorter than two years don't need to given out - I do think there are a few exceptions). I hope Timpson has some ideas about this.

The probation service needs more funding so that it can do its job properly and parole boards need to take more care before they let violent offenders out.

It was also the last Labour government that brought in DBS (CRB) checks and in so doing made it more difficult for offenders to be rehabilitated. I still think that DBS checks should only be permitted for certain jobs (too many employers go on fishing expeditions) and should only be allowed to check for relevant convictions eg for teachers you want to know if they are a danger to children but a spent shoplifting offence is in my view irrelevant and should not be disclosed.

Which is another reason why we need better rehabilitation of offenders in order to prevent issues when they are released and to help them integrate into society.

Not saying that this isn't important. But personally, it isn't in my top 5 of priorities atm, as I suspect is the same for most people. NHS first. I want to be able to get an appointment - impossible when you can't get through on the phone. Waiting lists to get down for ops. Housing sorted to accommodate the people who have been living here for years, still in temp housing. Instead of flooding streets with 'low level' criminals (btw, fraud andctheft are not low level crimes. Especially if youve been a victim of a mugging or robbed by a scammer of your life savings). Maybe increase sentences to make people think before they commit crime. If someone knows they'll just get 6 months for burglary, maybe they'll think twice if the automatic fixed sentence is 5 years.

There's the Crime Survey for England and Wales - which is supposed to be a reliable indicator of crime levels

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

The total number of CSEW headline crime incidents is 25% lower than the year to March 2017 survey. This is the earliest comparable year for CSEW headline crime when questions on fraud and computer misuse were first included on the survey.

Currently prisoners are given 50% remission automatically. This has been the case for years and is nothing to do with Labour vs. Tory. Your demand is simply impossible.

Except there's no evidence to support your idea that sentencing acts as a deterrent for crime...

So you propose having more people in prisons (that's what longer sentences means), which will require us to build more prisons and recruit more prison officers. How exactly would spending so much more money on prisons help the government with funding and improving the NHS?

Also, this work isn't being done instead of work to address the broken NHS. There is a separate Health Minister (Wes Streeting) who has nothing to do with prisons, and who will be pursuing his own work programme.

Does anyone who is oh so worried about the poor criminals ever think about their victims or do they not matter.

And what about the rape victims who are currently waiting years for trials and sentencing of their rapists, all because our CJS is on its knees and our prisons are too full? Do they not matter?

Not a single person on this thread has supported early release of those guilty of violent or sexual offences. But a functioning CJS is essential for everyone, including victims.

Do you think the current system helps the victims at all?

Do you think the 40% reoffending rate we have helps anyone? All that does is create more victims.

A dysfunctional criminal justice system has a knock on effect on all aspects of society. It’s not some sort of stand alone thing.

I very much doubt there’s no evidence that custodial sentences act as a deterrent. I suspect we’d agree about the need for a more enlightened penal policy and system, but one does have to approach it sensibly.

(All money spent on anything is “instead of”. Public expenditure is pure choice.)

Without the quote I’ve no idea to what you are referring. Since I agree that it’s great we have to assume either you or I misinterpreted each other’s posts.

Of course the reoffending rate doesn't help anyone, but I'm fed up with people acting as if the criminals have no choice but to offend!
'Oh poor me... I've just been out mugging people and robbing houses again... there's nothing else to do..'

But often there are complex reasons which lead to people offending. Not always of course but in many cases there are underlying things which lead to situations arising.

I think some people like to over simplify it because it’s easier than acknowledging wider societal issues which are at play.

I don't think it was top of Labour's either but the prison system is in such a shite state it has put its at the top of the list.

We need to sort out housing for everyone. Discharging prisoners to the streets where they can't claim benefits is never going to end well.

Sort out housing for everyone? I love the idealism.

Ah.... 'reasons'. Does this only work for some though to be given lesser sentences?