To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

[bagpuss90]

I’m sure I’ll be flamed here . I totally sympathise with the bereaved parents- I can’t stress that enough. I can understand them wanting justice . As we know the driver of the car suffered an epileptic seizure at the wheel - she had no history of epilepsy. I don’t see what she could have done differently. She has to live with what she did although it wasn’t her fault. AIBU to feel quite sorry for her ?

From what I understand, and it's just been explained to me, in a small minority of cases people can be diagnosed based on a very convincing account, as the tests cannot pick up every single person who has epilepsy.
What's more common apparently is people faking epilepsy (attention, mental illness, enjoy going to hospital?) and there are ways of tricking these non-epileptic patients into revealing that they are faking, as well as the EEG and other tests. Unfortunately due to the clumsiness of the NHS, many of these patients remain on an epilepsy pathway for the rest of their lives.
It seems that this case, whilst very tragic, is entirely credible and unremarkable (this is not meant to sound callous; I mean unremarkable from a medical point of view, like a heart attack). Anyone can understand why the parents of the children are angry, as the person they hold responsible for killing their children will not be jailed. But we can't imprison people for not being able to predict unforeseeable events in the way that we can hold people to account for drinking and then driving.
Apologies for any errors in explaining the medical side of things, it was so clear when it was being explained to me by an expert,....who then walked off to watch Netflix.....

I'd call it one of the possibilities overlooked on this thread.
On the other hand all the mentions of seizures in healthy people here now make me nervous.

It can also pick up seizure markers up to 48 hours after the event and there is a blood test which can detect the immune response to a seizure, although l think this has to be done fairly quickly.

I am actually disgusted by some on here. I understand full well the legalities, but the cold focus on, nay championing, the rights of the driver who killed two children displays an attitude that is at the very least unkind. I would suspect that the most vehement posters have an axe to grind, but all the same seem to be dismissing this tragedy with a wave of the hand. Especially the insistence that it would be all fine and dandy for this woman to climb into a 3-tonne car again should she wish.

No-one is brushing anything off. The debate is concerning the fact that a medical condition may or may not have been the cause of the crash. Are you seriously suggesting that this lady should be punished ? And what charges should she face ? It’s utterly tragic that these two children died, but there has to be a line between justice and vengeance.

Why?

No, it's not that at all.
People can understand the fact that it is not a black-and-white case. Most people understand that it is an absolute sickening tragedy- literally the worst thing that can happen to any parent- whilst also simultaneously understanding that the driver suffered from a medical event that was in no way foreseen. There was no intent, malice or negligence involved, hence the reason not to prosecute. Legal and medical experts have explained this throughout the thread. It's defending the rule of law. And yes, if I was in the situation the parents are in, my logic would go out the window and I'd want to see the driver imprisoned forever, but it's not the correct decision.

God forbid- if you drive this could happen to you, or anyone else who drives, despite never having had a seizure or any inkling of epilepsy tomorrow morning. When you're having a seizure, you can't control a car.

Well come on then, what would you suggest ? That in these cases we should prosecute people for driving while having an undiagnosed condition of which they are completely unaware ? And if this woman remains seizure free for the required time period how exactly are you going to stop her from driving again without changing the law to stop everyone else in a similar position from driving after a seizure ? What disgusts me is the refusal of some posters to accept that if she genuinely had a seizure then she’s not guilty of anything. It was a tragic accident which couldn’t have been foreseen. Two little girls tragically died but that absolutely doesn’t make it right to use the justice system to wreak vengeance wherever you see fit, regardless of whether a crime has been committed. That’s a slippery slope to a lynch mob.

Who’s championing the rights of the driver?
You clearly don’t understand the legalities.

People with epilepsy are allowed to drive, if they meet certain criteria.

Is just people with epilepsy that you think should be banned from driving? what other conditions do you think should make people ineligible to ever drive?

No one is dismissing it’s a tragedy. Can you show one person who has? That doesn’t change whether yeh driver was legally at fault or should be able to drive in future.

How would you stop her driving legally? I get you did the whole ‘if I saw her driving I would….’ . But the fact is your wouldn’t do anything. Because you couldn’t.

This thread is about the driver. And many people, like yourself, have just made up bollocks about the driver. Hows that helping? Who is it helping?

I take it you are a road traffic accident expert who was on scene? If you aren’t, what has the weight of the vehicle got to do with it. As yet there’s no public proof the same or worse wouldn’t have happened had it been a smaller car.

No one has said anything against the parents. Everyone understands why they feel how they feel. That’s doesn’t mean this woman should never be allowed to drive again. It doesn’t mean she is legally responsible.

You said earlier you would never drive again if this were you. you don’t know that. By driving at all you create a risk to pedestrians. Including children. So why do you drive now? Why do you take that risk now?

Please point out who in this thread suggested that if she genuinely had seizures she should still be guilty?

Epilepsy (seizures happen for other reasons to) would not be diagnosed on the basis of a single episode with no other supporting features.

The poster l was replying to for a start, then certainly the poster who stopped short of saying what she would do if she were one of the parents. And absolutely several posters who seem to think that she was at fault for driving an SUV, and that a FIAT Punto would somehow have guaranteed a better outcome.

Well actually @pleasehelpwi3 says the following:
From what I understand, and it's just been explained to me, in a small minority of cases people can be diagnosed based on a very convincing account, as the tests cannot pick up every single person who has epilepsy.

Do you disagree?

That's not true epilepsy can start at any age. You can also have a seizure or something similar without it being epilepsy.

Nope, the poster you replied to never mentioned the driver should be guilty if she had a genuine seizure. You are distorting what he/she said by creating a different narrative.

Who started these theories? The Inquest is in about 2 weeks time.
All evidence will be presented and it can be challenged and witnesses can be questioned.
Why get into a froth about it now?

Exactly. More may come out or it may not. No point speculating.

It's a terrible thing for all concerned. I have absolute sympathy for the parents and wider family of the children.
I also have sympathy for the driver. There is no way this situation could have been foretold- she had no history of seizures/epilepsy. She could not have avoided it/known. She will have to live with what happened forever and I don't think she will ever get over it.

When my mum had a grand mal seizure she was admitted to hospital. I questioned her doctor as to the diagnosis of epilepsy and the prescribing of quite a strong anti convulsant on the basis of a single seizure. He advised that both the EEG and blood test showed evidence of an epileptiform seizure, which formed the basis of the diagnosis and treatment. He said that someone presenting after one seizure would be questioned carefully to see if the characteristics of the seizure they describe could be assigned to an epileptic type event but that generally without the scan and blood test markers they would not have been diagnosed with, or treated for epilepsy until they had had at least two unprovoked seizures at least 24 hours apart. So it doesn’t appear that one isolated seizure will result in a diagnosis unless testing backs it up.

OK then. Whatever you like, but if there was no presumption of guilt why was that poster so opposed to this woman being allowed to drive again, assuming she remained seizure free. If the seizure was genuine she hasn’t done anything wrong has she ?

Will not be diagnosed with epilepsy doesn't equal to will not get "seizure" in her medical record. It's just epilepsy is more precise and needs eeg evidence of abnormal electric brain activity.

Same here - I can't believe that on Mumsnet of all places, there is not more outrage regarding the potential of these vehicles to maim and kill children.

It actually makes me think that some of the comments on here are from a PR person hired by the wealthy driver or pro SUV lobby.

Will the inquest be public?

Good point.

That’s complete nonsense. I haves close friend who had a serious seizure at her desk when she was in her late 40s. She had never had epilepsy or a seizure before. The specialist told her that it’s not uncommon at all.