To actually feel sorry for the woman driving the car in the Wimbledon car accident

[bagpuss90]

I’m sure I’ll be flamed here . I totally sympathise with the bereaved parents- I can’t stress that enough. I can understand them wanting justice . As we know the driver of the car suffered an epileptic seizure at the wheel - she had no history of epilepsy. I don’t see what she could have done differently. She has to live with what she did although it wasn’t her fault. AIBU to feel quite sorry for her ?

So if she had killed them in a punto, it would be less ‘bad’?

It’s called freedom of choice. You could make this case for every single person who drives an SUV - better yet, everyone who drives a car. What happened to her, could happen to anyone. And you do realise that hashtag ban SUV’s in urban areas is by definition ableist, as very many disabled drivers use these vehicles to accommodate wheelchairs and other equipment which won’t fit into standard cars.

They can’t be shown anything because of the pending inquest but they can be told the rationale behind the decision.
The families representatives can apply for a copy of forensic collision report, photos, statements and interviews after the inquest.

No, it’s just a convenient opportunity for the soap box brigade to use a tragedy to bang the drum of protest.

I put a link to this episode on a previous post about this subject. This ep refers to someone having a fit but the reason behind it was very different.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000fd4t
Its on BBC Wales, one of my favourite programmes especially as I worked for many years with forensic collision investigators.

Why ? She hasn’t done anything wrong. She had a first seizure behind the wheel. Could happen to anyone. Morality doesn’t come into it. If she has a diagnosis of epilepsy or another condition causing seizures she will have to be seizure free for a year and then she can drive again - just like anyone else in those circumstances. She may or may not want to get behind the wheel again but that’s personal choice. Or do you think we should be in the position of judging people’s moral fibre by their illness or disability - or even worse, punishing them for it ?

You would do what?

You haven’t said what you would do?

Resorting to insults of this type is a method of shutting down alternative views. Unless people are being deliberately offensive, best to try not to do this.

Would a Punto have mounted the kerb, gone through the fencing and continued at sufficient velocity to take out 2 children before they had the chance to react and move?

Arguably, had she been driving a Punto those 2 precious children would be alive 😡

My other half has spent the last 20 plus years working in the field of epilepsy, all of it in the NHS with some additional private work in Harley Street, and now is a clinical manager of a large hospital neurophysiology department. The job is 50/50 managerial/clinical, and amongst other things it involves testing people for epilepsy and writing reports for consultants about the patient's epilepsy based on clinical tests and observations. And there's an MSC in epilepsy from King's College in the mix as well, with a distinction.

According to them, not only is the driver's story entirely credible, but also rather common. Many people have their first seizure whilst driving, and this can happen later on in life. 'Rubbish' was the word mentioned when I said about the conspiracy theories on this thread.

Of course the parents the children are devastated; who are we to judge them for this. But the medical evidence is clear- money and lawyers don't change truth, as some conspiracy theorists are suggesting. I'm a teacher, and again, whilst I understand the headteachers's sadness, they are no more qualified to discuss epilepsy as my other half is qualified to talk about running a school.

It is an entirely different matter when people knowingly drive when they should not due to a medical condition, but this clearly didn't happen here.

@Bibblebobblebibble yes, it probably would have.
At the house i grew up in we had a renault clio leave the road, go through the boundary wall and travel nearly 100m across the yard and go through the stable wall. Unfortunately killed the horse that was in the stable at the time.
That was also a medical incident behind the wheel but not one the driver survived

Yes, it actually could have done.

A punto weighs over a ton.

what do you ‘ arguably’? We could to through every other car and it could have ‘arguably’ been a better out come or worse outcome. We could argue that she should have been riding a bike

we could argue that a punto may have flipped and killed more people. Do you think Puntos have never been involved in a fatal crash. She was driving a car that is legal to drive in the UK.

My friend now drives after the legal amount of time of being seizure free. Since taking medication he hasn't had another seizure and it's been several years now. He drives daily now, ever had an accident or incident since and is entitled to do so.

It's it that I'm defending the driver as such. Just that if this was a medical incident, as it appears to be, then there is no crime. It was a very tragic accident.

And having a friend have a similar medical incident whilst driving - with my own dh sat in the front passenger seat - I can see how this could happen to anyone.

Did you miss the previous post about a Nissan micro knocking down the wall of a house in a medical incident.

My friend's very normal average saloon car would have been capable of such damage and injury had it hit something before dh could stop the car. His foot was called to the accelerator during the seizure, so it's unlikely any fencing or wall would have slowed down the vehicle sadly. I suspect it would be the same here.

And like it or not, these cars are legal to own and drive on our roads. She was not doing anything wrong is driving the car under our current laws.

Why don't you make it clear to us all what you would do?

*Would a Punto have mounted the kerb, gone through the fencing and continued at sufficient velocity to take out 2 children before they had the chance to react and move?

Arguably, had she been driving a Punto those 2 precious children would be alive 😡*

Very likely yes, if during the seizure her foot was clamped to the accelerator as was the case in my friend's car during his seizure. Very sadly the same result would have happened regardless.

Enough with the 'if it was a smaller car'...

No, a smaller car in a similar sort of crash - foot flat to the floor as a seizure would almost certainly cause - would NOT have done significantly less damage.

What about this Seat Leon through the side of a house? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-56602502

Much smaller car but do you think two small victims sat in front of that wall would have survived?

Even our small cars are heavy lumps of metal, vs our own much smaller squishy bodies.

Not sure that’s right, the nhs website says sometimes it can’t be detected and a diagnosis is given on symptoms alone.

The specialist may suggest having a test to check your brain activity called an electroencephalogram (EEG), or a brain scan to look for any problem in your brain. But if these tests do not show anything, it's still possible you have epilepsy, and you may be diagnosed just based on your symptoms.

My only question to your husband would be - if all the tests are clear, will seizure still be diagnosed based on the patient's words? Doctors can't rule it out if the patient insists, can they?

@Daftasabroom @SleepyRich maybe you can comment?

I also asked a doctor about this. Apparently not all seizure can be easily identified as you claim. There are types of seizure that can be identified with a blood test or other tests. Some type of seizures are actually quite difficult to rule out or confirm.

This is how my mum was diagnosed. She had a grand mal seizure and was taken to hospital - EEG showed brain activity markers consistent with seizure over 24 hours later and she was diagnosed with epilepsy based on that and a blood test showing an immune response. She only had the one seizure and has been on Levetiracetam ever since.

All of this is conjecture though isn’t it ? Whether this woman has had the seizure confirmed by testing or not is between her and the medics treating her, and it may well be that the evidence is there. Even if it’s not, if she maintains she had a seizure she will be subject to the rules governing driving afterwards.

Codswallop. And shame on the people using this tragedy as a platform to protest the use of SUV’s.