To think that the election results don't add up?

[RobynRB]

How did LibDem get 70 odd seats and Reform 4 when Reform got 14% of the vote. I mean, I understand how it works... but it's hardly cause for LibDem's 'greatest result' ever is it? I bet Nigel is fuming. And rightly so.

I’m the same - although Lib Dems did manage to get their seat here. I would totally have voted Labour if we had PR so while it’s easy to dismiss Labour’s percentage of the votes, they undoubtedly have further support through the tactical voters. My vote for the LDs was actually a vote for Labour. Most people I know feel the same.

Only on page one but it’s astounding how many people don’t actually support democracy. I didn’t vote reform, never will, but democracy means they get seats, and in a PR system it would mean they could potentially be King Makers, just like the rather extreme left Greens are in Scotland.

Favouring a voting system and then having a wobble because citizens might vote for someone you don’t like, is a deeply undemocratic mindset.

Exactly this. I was in favor of PR back then, but didn’t vote for AV as it was a clearly crap system. Even Nick Clegg didn’t like it!

That vote was not a tale of what people think about PR, it was a tale of Nick Clegg being out-politicianed by David Cameron.

Yes, they do this in Germany or did when I was studying German politics, but it is also criticised as preventing small parties from getting into power.

I think Keir Starmer is more than aware that he won largely on negativity towards the Tories. He's not a fantasist. It's his job now to win the electorate round and actually grow to like him

As an aside, I really think it's time politics was taught in schools from about year five. Just on Mumsnet, I've seen so many people who've voted without really understanding what was going on.

It was both.

Yes.
Our Evri delivery driver, who comes into our house with our parcels and is a very friendly guy, told me that he hadn't voted. I was surprised.
But when you think about it, almost half of the electorate didn't bother voting.

I used to think this, but in Scotland I saw how it means that a small party, with low support amongst the population and few elected members, wields disproportionate power as King Makers.

So I’m less enamored if it now.

Now I see it’s always a choice of ‘least worst’ system though I am not sure which IS least worst.

Yes, and also banking etc... but politics is difficult to teach in schools without bias.

Yes. 14% of the people who voted, not 14% of the population

Maybe the structures of how it works?

this election gives an interesting example of FPTP !

My thoughts exactly!

Exactly, I believe it takes it down to about 8% of the population in real terms.

For the first time ever I'm quite glad of our FPTP system (as bizarre as it is) because we'd be in a right Reform mess now otherwise! Objectively, I'd be annoyed if I was Farage because the numbers speak for themselves and they did get more individual votes. But he is such a scumbag weasel of a man with no redeeming qualities, that I'd be happy to find out that he's unhappy.

It's not too obvious, it's too implausible.

The Lib Dems usually do worse out of FPTP. They're very aware of that. The reason they've done well this time is that this election has had a particularly high get the incumbent out vote. That tends to benefit the Lib Dems, which is why they overachieve in byelections. Most elections aren't like that, and the Lib Dems know that.

TLDR- this is a one off, they will know it's a one off, PR is in their longer term interests.

Yeah, I imagine LibDem is the next port of call for Conservatives who can't bring themselves to vote for Reform.

It would be nice to think teachers could explain the political system without imparting their own prejudices and biases, but.... who are we kidding here. I remember being lectured about why we should all vote Labour by my history teacher in about 1985.

I think there's a very real risk the Tory party will split if the Braverman faction get to seize the controls.

Or perhaps if they don't and the One Nation faction prevail.

9 pages? The results do add up. If you think otherwise maybe give the electoral commission a call.

It seems pretty obvious it would've been in a lot of constituencies yeah. The soft right, one nation types.

I think it’s an error to try to extrapolate the results from a FPTP system to ‘what they would be’ if we had some form of PR. Parties campaign and people vote based on the system we have so the results today cannot be applied to what we could expect if we were counting differently.
( I would like us to move to PR (although wouldn’t be thrilled with the influence it’d give Reform today) but I don’t think it is anywhere as straightforward as what the current vote shares are. )

No, clearly not. But at least it would represent the votes properly - and yes people would no doubt vote differently if their vote was meaningful. Perhaps it would even lead to more of a polarisation of voting? But at least there wouldn't be people like me stuck in a seat safer than your grandma's sofa who can't make any difference at all. Even Tony Blair didn't get a labour MP in my constituency.

Yes OP, this is not new—just ask Hilary Clinton, who got nearly 3 million more votes than Donald Trump.

I just love the fact that Reform actually helped Labour win, as those votes would have gone to Conservatives if Reform had not stood.