Passport office wanting GREAT Grandmother’s birth certificate

[FunWithFlagz]

(edited by MNHQ at request of OP)
I’m trying to get a passport for my granddaughter. She lives with me permanently. I’ve had an email asking for MY mothers birth certificate because I was born after 01/01/1983 so my not automatically be a British citizen. My mum is abroad on an extended boomer retirement holiday and her house is 120 miles away. Sending off for a copy would take 15 working days and I fly in 4 weeks…

Has anyone heard of such batshittery before? I never had to send my mums birth certificate when I got my own kids passports!

AIBU to think that this is insane and this passport officer is clearly bonkers?

Well, it's different because it's a generation up.

Not sure why the ageist " boomer retirement holiday " comment is relevant to the passport issue .

Have neither you nor your daughter nor either man "involved" had a British passport? That would solve the issue, I certainly didn't have to supply birth certificates but I had a passport number

I was born in 90 and had to provide my mums birth certificate and marriage certificate as she wasn’t born in the uk, it’s standard to do a full check sometimes.

@FunWithFlagz

Pretty rare to be a grandmother under 40. I'm 59 and no patter yet despite me having kids in my mid 20's.

We’ve all got passports!

It can be tricky. If the child is born before the mother gets a passport then the mother's passport is not evidence that she was a British citizen at the time of the child's birth.

However, if you already have a passport when your child is born then that is evidence of your citizenship.

It sounds in this case that the mother of the child did not have a passport before the birth of the child and also the OP, the grandmother did not have a passport before her own daughter (the child's mother) was born either.

Although I would have thought that the Passport Office would accept the passport number of the great grandmother since she was born before 1983. But perhaps there's some more details that the OP is not disclosing as it may be too identifying.

Thats pretty standard. It’s the great grandparent bit that flummoxed me

It's all part of the massive xenophobia of this country. You just have to go along with it, but use the application routes suggested by others. You don't have to wait for your mother to come back, or go to hers, or anything. You could ahve it within a few days.

Nope, I’ve had a passport since I was a very small person and my daughter has had a passport since she was 1, so that’s definitely not the issue. Great grandmother also has a passport. All born in the UK.

Im also in a profession in which I can (and do, regularly) sign passports, so I know they can identify you from your passport number.

For £40. Which I resent! After just sending my birth certificate via special delivery.

It just seemed unusual and a bit daft

It is rare, but not unheard of.

I hope you get to enjoy some grandchildren soon. I would have happily waited a lot more years for mine, although I love them lots.

Thats pretty standard. It’s the great grandparent bit that flummoxed me

They seem to be thinking that you are the mother & therefore your Mum is the GM!

Is it usual to provide BC's even if both parents & all GP's were born in England?

I'd call them. It seems they are confused and think you are the mum.

As you and your daughter were born UK after 01/01/83, British Nationality would depend on where your mother was born. All you need to do is supply passport numbers to show British Citizenship has already been established for parents and Gparents. Birth certificates are not required because they would have already been seen.

I’m assuming as you have custody of her you will have parental responsibility? Therefore they are viewing you as the ‘parent’ and asking for your parents proof of citizenship. A family member of mine has custody of children not biologically theirs and they had to prove their right to be here for the children to be entitled to British passports…even though everyone was born here and it was all quite straightforward (in theory!).

Hi.... This has intrigued me... So I checked the application form and it says: so couldn't you just add your daughter's passport number to your granddaughter's application?

Because, if not, where will it stop? You are possibly one of the earliest people to experience this- but if this is the way it's going, getting a passport will be crazy.

About grandparents:
If the applicant’s parents were born on or after
1 January 1983, you will also need to provide
evidence of grandparents’ claim to British
nationality by providing their birth certificates
and, in the case of grandfathers, their marriage
certificates.
This does not apply if:
the applicants parents’ British nationality is
based on registration, naturalisation or their
immigration status, or
the applicant has provided the British
passport number for parents’ in Section 4 of
the application form.

It’s not that rare depending on where you live/ your social circles. I have met quite a few grandmothers under 40 in NI.

OP hope you get it sorted soon.

Exactly because Op was born after 1983 regardless of the fact she’s got a passport they need to provide proof of her parents being a British citizen. Doesn’t matter if it’s child or grandchild they want proof to make sure she’s entitled to a uk passport.

This is quite interesting at an intellectual level. I know there's a difference betwen being what used to be called a British Citizen and a British Subject. I was not born here but have a British passport as my father is English. However, if I were to have children outside of this country, they could not get a British passport automatically as my British passport is not sufficient to prove I am British.

I have a vague memory of my original British passport calling me a Ciitizen and my Dad's calling him a subject so perhaps pre 1983, that was specified in the passport and is no longer?

What's intersting is that they will have to update this because asking for great grandparents details is, in normal life, very difficult. I don't even know my great grandparents' names, so there's no chance I'd get a birth certificate.

What's intersting is that they will have to update this because asking for great grandparents details is, in normal life, very difficult. I don't even know my great grandparents' names, so there's no chance I'd get a birth certificate.

They would be on your grandparents' birth certificates. I've traced family history back much further than that!

Have you provided copies of your and your daughter’s British passports? That should be sufficient for them to verify that you are both citizens otherwise than by descent and therefore your granddaughter is also a citizen otherwise than by descent. Specifically does your daughter have a British passport issued before your grandaughter was born?

I get why they are asking for the birth certificate but if it’s tricky to get and they can see that your daughter was a British citizen at the point your daughter was born that should be sufficient.

But .... You have misread...

The applicant is the OPs gransdaughter. The applicants parent is the OP's daughter.

So the applicant needs to provide BC of grandma (which she has- as it's the OPs BC)... But she didn't have to, because it clearly states.....

This does not apply if:
the applicants parents’ British nationality is
based on registration, naturalisation or their
immigration status, or
the applicant has provided the British
passport number for parents’ in Section 4 of
the application form.

Contact your MP. They can usually speed things up.

I haven’t miss read like I said because the op who is the grandparent was born after 1983 that’s why they are questioning it, it’s normal, both grandparent and mother were born after 1983 so the rules still apply . They need to validate who the descent comes from hence asking for great grandmothers stuff.