Passport office wanting GREAT Grandmother’s birth certificate

[FunWithFlagz]

(edited by MNHQ at request of OP)
I’m trying to get a passport for my granddaughter. She lives with me permanently. I’ve had an email asking for MY mothers birth certificate because I was born after 01/01/1983 so my not automatically be a British citizen. My mum is abroad on an extended boomer retirement holiday and her house is 120 miles away. Sending off for a copy would take 15 working days and I fly in 4 weeks…

Has anyone heard of such batshittery before? I never had to send my mums birth certificate when I got my own kids passports!

AIBU to think that this is insane and this passport officer is clearly bonkers?

I vaguely remember something about this when I applied for my children's passports, as I was born after 01.01.1983 as well. Umm, will they accept your mothers passport number? Can she send it to you?

I too was going to ask if the child's mother's birth certificate was sent or just yours?
Would you have been able to get a child's passport back in 4 weeks? Is your holiday refundable? Insured for a cancellation?

I must say, you are the youngest grandmother I've heard of. I assume you get confused for her mum all the time (far better than being mum and being called grandma by strangers though 😬)

If my Mums birth certificate was asked for I wouldn't think it was batshit. So it's no different for your Mums to be asked for.

Yes it is correct and it will become more of a problem in the future because you are automatically British if you were born in Britain before 1983. If you were born after that then it needs to be that one of your parents was. If your parents were born AFTER 1983 though then it would have to be one of their parents (which sounds like the situation you are in!) and in time it'll be great grandparents and so on.

You can apply for a same day birth certificate to collect or have posted 1st class. This sounds like your best option.

Thanks all. Just to clarify, the original application was sent with my granddaughter and my daughter’s birth certificates. They then emailed and asked me to send MY birth certificate too, which I did. They have now emailed again and asked for MY MOTHER’S (so the great grandmother of the applicant) birth certificate, as I was born after 01/01/1983. That’s what seems batshit.

I can do an expedited application for a new birth certificate for my mum, but it’s nearly £40!

It just all seems a madness!

I was 32 when I first became a grandma. I’m not the youngest grandma in the UK though - some friends googled it as a laugh.

Her and her siblings look just like me so I get confused for their mum all the time. They soon correct people though!

I haven’t just sent it off, they’ve had it over a month. I never had this bother with her elder sister’s first passport so I didn’t anticipate it.

Of course. I sent that with the original application

So, you’ve had to send great grandparents birth certificates too, in addition to the child, their parents and grandparents? I didn’t even know it was a thing!

I understand the whole citizenship thing but surely if the parents and grandparents are British citizens, the child will be too!

I was 32 when I first became a grandma.
Whow! I TTC 12yrs and was still having rounds of IVF at 43. The thought of being a grandmother at that age was unthinkable to me, let alone at 32!
I hope you can get it sorted and very soon!

I’ve never known great grandparent details being required. Sounds like it’s partly due to you and her mother being unusually young - most people would not need to go back three generations to get to a birth before 1983.

I doubt anyone can answer this question because the chances of a child's grandparents being under 41 are so vanishingly slim! I would do the expedited certificate in your position.

Has she a trusted neighbour who can go into her house and get it? It's not a mad suggestion, I could do it for a number of friends

Wow I'm feeling old!

Seems odd to have to send off other people's birth certificates doesn't it?

If your Mum has a passport they've obviously had sight of her BC at some point!

My kids were born in the 90s & I remember having to fill in where all the GPs were born, but not BCs needed sending!

Don't think the ILs would have liked that!

@FunWithFlagz it's not happened often but we have had to do it for some where mum & Grandma were young, I'm not sure exactly of the reasons when it comes to citizenship but it has been required at times.
Though no harm in ringing the passport office for advice if you think they may already have information to ascertain the right to the passport?

"I can do an expedited application for a new birth certificate for my mum, but it’s nearly £40!"

You don't necessarily need to do an expedited application unless you're up against a really tight deadline. The normal time to get a birth certificate from the GRO if you know the GRO Index is 5 days.

It costs £12.50 here (or £38.50 for next day):

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

But the thing is, they only do it that quickly if you already know the GRO Index for the certificate. You have to search for that here, but they don't have the Index for births between 1935 and 1983 (so that probably won't help with your mum's birth certificate):

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

If you know somebody who is into tracing their family tree then you might ask them to find the GRO Index of your mum's birth certificate (sites like Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast etc will all give you the GRO Index for any civil birth certificate).

Without that it costs £16 for the standard service which takes three weeks or £42 for priority and it's sent out next day.

Thanks! I don’t know the GRO index of her birth certificate so it’ll take an age unless I pay loads of money.

It’s just a bit annoying!

Glad to hear that this happens to others and it’s not a very over eager passport office bloke set out to ruin my day 😂

I do feel that if this is a requirement, then they should update the guidance on the gov.uk passport site to include great grandparents. If I’d had an inkling they might need it I could have been prepared.

The reason is, that before 1983, anyone born in the UK (and so having a UK birth certificate) was automatically a British citizen. Well, apart from a couple of really obscure exceptions.

So, if anyone born before 1983, such as the great grandmother in this case, has a UK birth certificate then that is evidence, by itself, that she is a British citizen.

Things changed in 1983 and British citizenship became dependant not only on where you were born but also your mother's and/or father's nationality.

The mother of the child must also be a British citizen or be settled in the UK. Settled means having either Indefinite Leave to Remain or equivalent, like the more recent EU Settled Status.

If the mother is not a British citizen or settled then the child would still be a British citizen if their father was a British citizen or settled and was married to the mother.

In 2006 they dropped the requirement for the father to be married to the mother and now it is if either parent is a British citizen or settled.

It can’t be that rare? Not so rare that it’s not worth a mention on the passport website?

I was going to say you must be a young grandmother. I'd ring the passport office, I've never heard of having to send in great grandmother's birth certificate.

Not any help I'm afraid, but how does your grand-daughter not have a birth certificate? Wasn't she registered at birth? Or has it been lost in the "reasons you now have custody of her"?

Secondly, how is someone born after 1983 old enough to have a grandchild?? I was in '84 and am nearly 40. Technically I could quite easily have a child in their 20s, but jeez, you've made me feel old!

Can you provide your daughter’s passport as evidence of citizenship? Or your son-in-law’s passport as evidence? Or your passport?

There is no mistake as someone has already explained. It's because the OP, the grandmother was born after 1983. Therefore the proof is to provide birth certificates dating back to before that year.

You haven't heard of it only because all the grandparents you have met are born before 1983. I am a mother of school aged children and I was born before 1983!

But doesn’t a passport prove citizenship?

Can you find it on ancestry?