The icing on the cake. 22 year old son seeing woman 20 years his senior.

[Mymothersfavouritegirl]

The background: Our youngest son left school with few qualifications, he’s not dumb but not academic. He began a 3 year apprenticeship but after 2 years and 8 months he got the sack for bad time keeping. He is now 22 and works in a bar, from that environment and the people he works with he began smoking weed over a year ago which continues even at work with his colleagues. He has been offered cocaine there also though he says he declined this. His personal hygiene standards are appalling, his clothes are so awful I dare say even a tramp is better dressed, his room resembles a tip, he’s pretty gobby, opinionated and will not take any advice from anyone in the family because he’s fine with the way he lives and feels he has the right to do as he pleases with his life. He lacks self discipline or respect for anyone. He is the polar opposite to our other 3 children who range from 25 to 37, and we feel as though we have completely failed as parents with him.
We are on the whole deeply unhappy with the situation, the house smells of weed ( he stores it in his room) our clothes also smell of it as it permeates from his clothing onto ours in the washer. He isn’t allowed to smoke it in our house but when we were away on holiday he did. We sought drug counselling and decided not to ask him to leave because we feared we would drive him further toward a darker way of life. He certainly cannot afford to rent somewhere and pay bills.
Anyway he came in one Sunday morning recently and after saying Hi and exchanging a few pleasantries he dropped into the conversation that some woman customer had waited for him to finish work, he then went home with her, they had sex, he came home and now he was now off to bed to catch up on his sleep! I was a bit shocked and enquired about her, he said he doesn’t want to date her, she’s in her 40’s and that’s probably the end of it. We haven’t experienced this before with our other kids and whilst I appreciate he’s got the right to see whoever he wants and do what he wants, we as Christian’s are struggling with this as it’s way off our own moral compass (not that we profess to be whiter than white) but we have tried to raise our kids to respect other people, respect themselves, encouraged healthy relationships and spoke of sex within a loving committed relationship rather than promiscuity. Last night he came home from work and said he was heading out to see screw her again. My husband and I feel that if this is to continue he has to leave our home, we are 62 and 59 and really don’t need this shit forced upon us. Am I being unreasonable to have these concerns and want him to leave or should we put up and shut up in order to maintain positive steadying influence in his life?

I grew up in a super religious household and I was both the scape goat and black sheep from aged 12.

What he’s doing is very normal for his age (although I didn’t drugs or casual sex myself).

The language he is using is clearly used to get a reaction. I wonder why this clash exists between you both? For me, my ultra religious and academic siblings were put on a pedestal by my parents while I wasn’t treasured or well thought because I didn’t attend church and rejected the rife sexism/racism/homophobia in the chuch (1990s). I am also dyslexic, so although bright I found academic work hard going and this was yet another way in which I disappointed my parents. Their low opinion of me knocked my confidence long term.

in your shoes I’d have a two pronged approach. Stop judging him and criticising him and focus on all his positive actions and positive character traits. Tell him what you love and appreciate about him, however small. Rebuild a loving positive fun relationship. What are his interests? Find a weekly shared hobby or interest and spend quality time together.

Often on mumsnet parents are chucking their kids out at 18, however he’s still young and unsettled.

And the weed just needs keeping in an air tight container I expect.

It seems odd you're thinking of booting him out over the woman when the other things are far worse. I would not have drugs in my house full stop and if he smelt of it he wouldn't be coming in the house either. I'm surprised anyone would actually want to sleep with him given his bad personal hygiene

He is being so blatant that I wonder if he enjoys shocking you, sort of leaning into his position as the family disappointment.

Certainly he should respect you in your own home - no weed in the house, and you don't want to know who he sleeps with.

It sounds as if you've been patient for long enough and it's time for you to help him to be more independent. Tell him the rules he needs to follow to live in your house and let him decide whether to follow them or move out.

Am I the only one wondering how the 42 year old heathen managed to hold her breath long enough to shag him if his hygiene is so appalling?🤢
I can't decide if she deserves a medal or therapy.

This - ALL the traits you have listed for him are ADHD traits. Sounds like he has a full whammy of spectrum of traits.

I quite agree. He doesn’t seem to understand normal social boundaries. OP is this new or part of the reason he was kicked off the apprenticeship?

A lot of 22 year olds smoke weed and have casual sex. I would also be very disappointed if my DD smoked weed though as I am very anti it, but I agree with your stance about not alienating him. He sounds like he is trying to shock and rebel at the moment. My advice would be to be kind, supportive and keep looking for common ground. Ask him to remove the weed due to the smell, don’t react or judge re his fling, maybe just say you don’t need to know details about his sex life. It sounds like he is immature and trying to get a reaction, but he still has a whole long life to clean up his act. I wouldn’t give him the attention he is after by reacting negatively to his behaviour, I would give him lots of love and attention in general though and make sure he knows you see his good points. Maybe buy him a gym membership or encourage exercise or a sport if he would give that a go. I did drugs and slept around at that age but turned into a successful mature person eventually.

@Mymothersfavouritegirl I think that your son is rebelling against your Christian values.

You can’t force him or even expect him to live by Christianity’s rules or force him/expect him to believe and have faith in any particular religion. Free will means the freedom to choose.

If you are a Christian then you would be familiar with the serenity prayer:

Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Meditate on this. And accept that you cannot change your son. You can accept him for who he is, be a positive influence (ultimately it is up to him whether or not he is influenced by you), and love him.

Who he has consensual sex with (even though it goes against your Christian values) is not within your control.

Whether or not you allow illegal drugs in your house is in your control. It is your house, you can assert that boundary of what may or may not be permitted within it.

I’m curious as to why he bothered to discuss a casual fling - it’s an odd thing to announce. Could he have been seeking (and able to predict) an uncomfortable or disapproving reaction from you? What’s the relationship between you been like through his lifespan? 22-year-olds are not grown ups from a brain development perspective. Our brains don’t complete their growth - especially the areas around self-control and perspective-taking - until we are around 25. He sounds as if he’s still very much in adolescent rebellion mode. As parents with strong values, I would imagine you want for him: a decent job with prospects, a partner of similar age and values, healthy life choices ie not drugs. He’s doing the opposite for a reason - to provoke a reaction from you. You clearly care about him, but he may have his own ideas about his role as youngest child.

This! I’d be more concerned about the lack of motivation and pride.

This. My first thought was that he has ADHD. Impulsive behaviour, poor time management, executive dysfunction, chaotic messy bedroom, executive dysfunction where it comes to personal hygiene etc. I agree, it could be worth looking into ADHD, do a bit of research yourself about the condition and see if any of the symptoms ring true in relation to your son. Medication and support could be live changing.

Probably because he is neurodiverse ☺️

I don't like the term promiscuous much but your son doesn't sound promiscuous. One long weekend I had sex with four people in four days when I was his age. (Before anyone pities me, it was great)

Have your Christian views been oppressive? Maybe they’ve screwed him up.

Thank you. I said exactly this only to be mocked.

Thank you.

It's reassuring I'm not the only one who saw it.

It’s quite odd to me that out of everything, a couple of one night stands could push you over the edge. Lots of completely normal and self-sufficient adults have casual sex and it’s not illegal or necessarily morally wrong, it just doesn’t align with your personal views. However, I would think about why he keeps telling you - even in very open families this is probably a bit of an overshare from a 22 year old, so it seems like he’s looking for a rise out of you - to pick a fight or have you throw him out? For that reason alone I’d probably try and act as unbothered as you can about it and focus on the bigger issues. I think this is the least of your worries and it might not even be true!

I would hate my DD to date someone 20years their senior but I wouldn’t say anything because she’d be a grown adult who can make her own choices.

You are way too strict and therefore he’s rebelling against your rules (which is why he felt the need to tell you about it).

Treating him like the black sheep is going to make him act like one.

He’s an adult having sex.
Its what adults do.

Your religion may not condone it but he may not be as religious as you and he’s rebelling against it, so the more you tell him not to do something the more he’s going to do it.

Smoking weed is not a big deal either and most people smoke it at his age or drink alcohol or both.

If he wants to keep his room a tip and not wash himself, then that’s up to him and he has to live with the consequences.

You need to back off a bit and treat him like the adult he is (and stop comparing him to his siblings).

It is your house so there needs to be rules about what happens in it (eg no smoking indoors) but anything else you do not get a say in.

Please read the book “Failure to Launch” by Mark McConville. It offers practical advice for this exact scenario. You are focusing on the wrong things here.

This is what happens when we infantilise young people. He has a job, he has his own lifestyle that isnt really part of the family. He needs to move out.

He can make his own choices, he has agency over himself, as OP says he is averagely intelligent, he is making his own networks (albeit OP doesnt approve).

Whether he has ADHD or not, wont necessarily change what he feels is important to him, he could get a diagnosis tomorrow, but medication for ADHD isnt always effective, some people stop using it because they dont like the side effects and prefer to continue to self medicate with weed, that might be his choice. I dont know why people throw the condition around as if it will change anything. A very large number of the prison population have ADHD, diagnosis wont have changed anything in the trajectory of their lives.

Ultimately he is a grown adult, he has to make his hown choices, and mistakes, OP will be there to advise and guide and support, perhaps even help financially but like others said, there is no way someone would be storing drugs in my property and disrespecting the family home in that way. Theres nothing 'wrong' with how he lives but it doesnt accord with a family lifestyle or family home. So time to move on

Why do you think he's sleeping around and being promiscuous? You mentioned one woman! I think you're being uptight for expecting a 22 year old to only have sex in a long term relationship. You might be Christian but he doesn't have to be!

As for the weed and everything else you have every right to tell him to go and live elsewhere.

I ALWAYS told my daughter... Bring drugs or police back to my door, and you are out. And i would have.
You need boundaries and to be stern about them. Absolutely no drugs in the house because....its your house.
The woman is his business...but even at 22 id still remind him about safe sex to protect himself and woman...she can still get pregnant and either at risk from STI'S.
BOUNDARIES and don't sway on them ..if you go in holiday he has to stay elsewhere for 2 week as he broke a house rule.

She is probably in the same network, just as dysfunctional, maybe has lots of the same habits and traits. Perhaps her hygiene is worse.

This. Listen to the people saying possible ADHD.