Voting in an hour - tell me why I shouldn’t vote reform

[Wentie]

This isn’t a wind up. I’ve done countless different quiz type things and the policies I most align to come out strongly reform. I would previously have been a Tory voter. I don’t like farage and I do feel prejudiced against reform from what is portrayed in the media - but their policies appeal to me. Anyone have any actual facts or glaring holes that I might have missed?

How does she feel about Timothy Evans? Hanged on the evidence of serial killer John Christie. Oh sorry, Special Constable John Christie.

This.

Is that it? No concerns about economy, corruption, taxes, human rights, prejudice, racism, bigotry? You like Farage because as he put it, he’s made a few women pregnant?

Farage did a web chat here in 2011
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12570547

He’s made a lot of negative comments on working mums eg maternity leave is too costly, “lunacy “ and how it’s understandable if a firm doesn’t hire a young woman of childbearing age. He said that women in the City face no discrimination and taking a couple years off for maternity “obviously means the worker will be worth far less” These are official statements in interviews, not secretly recorded conversations.

He has discussed his support for the privatisation of the NHS on many occasions. How would most people afford health insurance ? How would we prevent his mates personally profiting from a change that would cause even more people financial difficulty and greater inequality through sickness? The NHS needs reform but not to become like the US system which would be Farage’s goal.

Good for you! You can do as you like, it is a democracy after all. You vote whatever way you want to.

Can I ask your genuine thoughts on the below?

A standing candidate (Ian Gribbin) said all of the below and was not booted out of the party.

You're voting for a party that wants the person who said the below to represent them in parliament. Where he would vote on policies including those specifically about the rights of women and girls.

His comments:

"Do you (women) think you could actually work and pay for it all too like good citizens?

"Men pay 80% of tax – women spend 80% of tax revenue. On aggregate as a group you only take from society.
"Less complaining please from the 'sponging gender'."

He added that women are "subsidised by men to merely breath (sic)".
In January 2022 he posted: "Men pay 80% of tax. Women take out 80% of expenditures.

"Square that inequality first by depriving women of healthcare until their life expectancies are the same as men, Fair’s fair."

In December 2021 he wrote female soldiers "almost made me wretch (sic)" and were a "total liability".'

They're misogynistic, fascist wankers - hope that helps.

Because it's not just about the policies that are put forward. It's also about whether the party has the credibility/have costed to deliver these policies. The attitude of the party generally should also be taken into account, does their worldview (their actions and words outside of their manifesto) align with your own?

Sorry misread

I wouldn't vote for anyone/anything that Russian bots are pushing for.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/twitter-bots-x-general-election-russia-b2572328.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russianinterferenceinthe2016Brexitreferendum

In the interests of 'patriotism', you are playing right into the hands of foreign interests.

You do realise that one can be non-British and racist? Inmigrants from certain parts of the world are massively conservative. And also descendants of certain inmigrants can be very anti inmigration.

You and I have very different values and/or ideas about how realistic Reform's policies (at least such policies as actually exist) are; but of course you should vote for what you think - that's what democracy is about. It is awful (IMO) that one in five of my compatriots apparently agrees with Reform - but agree they do and they have every right to.

Why do you feel you need to ask? It just shows the unbelievable stanglehold the left have on the media, the arts, the universities and pretty much everything else. They have convinced people that to be 'right-wing' (which is a meaningless phrase they use to describe anyone they dislike) is evil. Even to be mildly conservative or skeptical is evil. To be good, you have to be left-wing.

I guess that explains the breathtaking smugness of left-wing people. You have to embrace mass immigration, for example, or you're one of the baddies (because in lefty land the world is neatly divided into goodies and baddies). They never stop to consider the consequences of mass immigration. What about the single mum who has undocumented young men dumped next door – men who, for all we know, have fled their home country because they're wanted for rape or murder or drug dealing. In general, young men don't just up and leave. Most have ties and duties of some kind – parents, grandparents, jobs, etc. Look at the recent case of Anicet Mayela, an illegal immigrant from the Congo. Activists fought (and won) to stop him being deported. He then went on to rape a teenage girl. What about that girl's human rights? What about the rights of people not to have the countryside destroyed by endless house building? I will vote Reform, and I can justify it on moral grounds. Socialism sounds great. In reality, it makes life worse.

My paternal grandad came here legally and integrated. Adopted British cultural traits whilst preserving his own Indian/Sikh identity. He supported his children who chose to marry English people. His daughters were educated and not forced to marry cousins. He set up businesses and never once relied on the state.

Some people who come to this country seemingly hate the West.

Immigrants are not a monolith.

This is one of the most horrific things I have ever seen on mumsnet.
and I bet you think you are a good person and people who vote for reform are evil.

If you really don't know I genuinely feel sorry for you. Thinking of you op

You think, right now, that you will feel better for it - that there will be some sort of catharsis. But you won't...

When I can feel the resentment building within myself, I force myself to do one small thing for another person or for the community. And - it really, really helps! I promise you this.

Turning outwards towards others is the only thing that makes a positive difference, in the long run - and I've found that it is the only thing that really helps me too.

@BorgQueen "For clarity I’m not voting Reform -
if they are so awful, why have I seen Black people, a big group of Sikhs and plenty of Women campaigning for them? "

Because black people, Sikhs and women can be awful too.

to my mind Reform are essentially a lobbying group or single issue campaign… ok, more than a single issue, but their impetus can all be bundled up into a fairly slim bundle.

They have no real political experience or capacity on the wider government of a country. Not enough people skilled in health, education, real global foreign policy, economy, environment.

I am so far from being a Reform voter, but they do represent a demographic who feel dismissed and ignored, and that shouldn’t be dismissed or ignored… but I just don’t think they have the capability or capacity to run a government.

So even if I sympathised with them I wouldn’t vote for them. Even as a protest vote as protest votes don’t end well. The Jeremy Corbyn debacle was to a large extent a protest vote as was Brexit.

If you like full scale privatisation of the NHS, destruction of the environment and for people from BAME backgrounds to lose equitable access to health, then vote Reform.

*Cooper77 *

I don’t disagree with anything you say in this post but as a lot of people are saying on this thread most of the reform candidates are stupid, racist, misogynist or both. Farage and Tice, while far from stupid, are opportunists.

is your reform candidate of a better quality than the dross I have seen?

Embarrassing for you.

God help us