Do any of arch-lockdowners regret it?

[Refractory]

Just that really.

I haven’t really been on MN since 2020 because I found the near complete support for lockdown far too upsetting.

the lockdowners in my life seem to not think about it much. For them, it’s just over.

with hindsight do you wish you’d been more sceptical?

would love a civil conversation about this.

The fact that some surgeries coped, saw patients, kept the service going shows it could be done.

@Gogogo12345

The doctor surgery should've been an easy one. Just take a bloody test before entering the building.

That's way too easy for the NHS to understand.

There was no coherent "plan" for accessing NHS services. As usual, with the severe fragmentation, different areas of the NHS did different things (and some seemed to do nothing at all).

My OH was in the middle of chemotherapy. They just cancelled it and never got back to him to reschedule. He had to phone and visit the dept many times to get it restarted. On the few times he visited, there were lots of staff around the oncology dept but very few patients!

Before he even got in, they insisted on a negative Covid test so he had to make an appointment with a different hospital for a "drive through" covid test. I needed to go with him for his infusion which the oncologist was happy with, but she didn't know if I'd need a negative Covid test myself and told me to "phone oncology" to ask them - err - she was the oncologist, doesn't she know?? Anyway turned out I didn't - they were happy with me on the ward without a covid test, but insisted on OH having a negative test. That makes sense - not!! Anyway, when we got to the ward, which was all locked with a door bell to ring and they took OH's temperature before letting us in, but not mine! Then we both went in together, sat together, etc. Completely illogical.

The next time we went a week later, they wouldn't let me in because I'd not had a covid test, and let in OH despite his covid test being 2 weeks earlier - he could easily have caught it in the meantime. Talk about piss up in a brewery.

Someone at high level within the NHS should have been making decisions for the entire country, not leaving it to individual department managers to make it up as they went along.

I’m genuinely interested in how long people think the ‘deadly’ bit of the pandemic lasted for, based on this chart. Did we really need two to three years of such extreme measures? I guess you could argue the blue spike is proof that lockdowns work.

We really didn't have "two to three years of extreme measures". The only really "extreme" was the first six weeks of a proper lockdown where nearly everything was closed. Things opened up in a lot of areas pretty quickly and subsequent lockdowns were never as severe. I.e. in the first lockdown, lots of places like building sites closed down, as did fast food takeaways, non food shops, "non essential food" shops like small bakeries, etc. They soon found ways to re-open after the first few weeks, i.e. shops serving through windows or hatches, etc. Many building sites stayed generally open throughout the subsequent lockdowns in one way or another. Deliveries of both food and non essentials continued virtually throughout.

We really didn't have "two to three years of extreme measures". The only really "extreme" was the first six weeks of a proper lockdown where nearly everything was closed.

This is not true at all! We weren’t even wearing masks in the first six weeks and it was 12 weeks before the first groups of children were allowed back to school.

I suppose how extreme it felt depended on your position in life but children and students were directly impacted by lockdown rules (not covid) for a good two years. The consequences of those rules are still affecting some people.

Or should never have happened at all OP. It was an epidemic not a pandemic, and mostly one affecting the over 80s, and the obese (for whom the best preventative measure would have been more movement not less). The debt the current government is left with with cripple our children and grandchildren. And as exemplified by this thread there are still nutters who would have us have increased it, or even still lock us up now.

*It

Even if it was mainly affecting the elderly and the obese, @recoveringworkaholic, firstly these people, myself included, still have value and can’t be sacrificed for the greater good, and secondly if more of them had caught covid, more would have ended up in hospitals, and the burden on the NHS would have been even worse, perhaps even overwhelming.

And covid fits the definition of a pandemic - an epidemic is an outbreak of a disease confined to a particular area, whereas a pandemic is a world wide outbreak of a disease.

and the obese (for whom the best preventative measure would have been more movement not less

Well quite. Lets tell people they can't go out and exercise! And yes I know people could, and it wasn't so bad in the first lockdown because it was spring/early summer, but in the winter it was hard for people to get exercise when they weren't allowed to go out with other people - as I said above - it had a disproportionate impact on women.

Good point, but I'd also add that lots of people couldn't. The way in which the rules were enforced functionally excluded some people from exercise. If you knew you were going to need to sit and rest, perhaps if you were elderly or pregnant, there was no specific provision for you to be allowed to do so and in some cases physical obstacles were placed in your way. Benches being taped over etc. There was nothing in the English rules to say people couldn't sit and rest, but the practical reality meant it didn't happen.

And yes, as the average person gained weight during lockdown and most of us got covid in the end, what that meant on a population level was more risk. We could still have had a lockdown that emphasised the need to get out and exercise, instead of scaring people away from it.

I broke the law in the second lockdown by collecting my son's (age 9) friend and taking them to the park to play together and have a run around in a mud-swamp with a ball.

There was no recognition in law to allow children aged 5+ to meet and be supervised. U5s were recognised. Adults could exercise with a friend. Screw those 5-10 yo's. Especially the ones prohibited from going to school for another 2 months on top of the 4 months March-July.

And we wonder why childhood health and weight issues are worse since Covid. I did get mine out a lot (fortunately I wasn't trying to maintain a job and family life simultaneously like many) but I do know children that have not regained basic, functional fitness since; they are too weak and heavy to climb, get up and down off the floor easily and to run around. This is a disaster for their long term health.

It sounds daft 3.5 years later, but the fear of aggro was real. My police force arrested a pair of friends for having a hot takeaway drink together at the end of a walk. It took a lot to ask the friend's parent who I didn't know brilliantly to be complicit in breaking the law in a public place.

My only regret is that I didn't test the ground in the summer when my children were struggling with depression from social isolation.

And we didn't save granny. The DCs last saw her late in 2019, because by the time it was viable to go abroad and see her as her health failed and she became imprisoned by hospital and care home restrictions, it was too late. The cancer consumed her and she wouldn't have recognised them any more. You can't lockdown away the advance of geriatric cancers.

At least dying in 2022, she got a proper funeral.

I can give a benefit of the doubt to March- May 2020, but once the critical pressure on the NHS was released, children should have gone back to school. Summer 2020 and the chance to live healthily was squandered. Saving exposure until September after 6 months of below minimal social contact was lunacy. There were no guarentees of vaccines saving the day in a timely fashion.

We are still paying dearly for prolonged restrictions in so many ways. Some people paid for lockdowns with their lives- they are just as valuable as Covid deaths. Some people will be living with the damage of lockdowns for many decades to come.

this is a great post. Sums up my views too.

I broke the law in the second lockdown by collecting my son's (age 9) friend and taking them to the park to play together and have a run around in a mud-swamp with a ball.

Good for you. We shat all over that one in this house, also having DC who fell foul of the meet a friend provision due to their ages. It was a great decision.

From what you post here about your police force, I think I know which area you're in. I wondered at the time how many social interactions were driven indoors and unseen by policing like that.

@Badbadbunny
We really didn't have "two to three years of extreme measures". The only really "extreme" was the first six weeks of a proper lockdown where nearly everything was closed. Things opened up in a lot of areas pretty quickly and subsequent lockdowns were never as severe.

It was 11 weeks until people living alone were allowed to bubble. That's the time frame that's seared into my mind.
Perhaps it didn't feel so extreme if it was just shops, rather than people, you were missing.

Plus the local lockdowns/tier system in autumn 2020 that varied wildly depending where you were.

Agreed 3 years is overstating it though. More like 18 months.

There definitely had to be some space for those having problems. The lockdown hit my son hard, he had a mental health crisis and was self-harming, we had to take it in turns to watch him. The only time I broke lockdown was taking him to my parents for a bit, so we could all have a break and some time alone to get some space.

@Badbadbunny @BathingOnPeriod we had laws that were unprecedented for almost exactly 2 years, compelling masks and periods of isolation. But the worst of it was March 2020 until Mid July 2021. So 15-16 months.

Before Covid sent us all mad, compelled isolation, vaccine passports, and face coverings would have been considered pretty draconian. But compared to a press conference announcing that the vaccine campaign allowed us to sit on a bench, these were pretty tame!

I think it was mainly needed- but I call it the year the world went mad . Threats of police officers going through shopping trolleys, pubs closing at 10 pm. - did the virus only spread after 10 pm? A drink only allowed with a substantial meal- clearly again it didn’t spread of you’d had a scotch egg. Not being allowed to sit on a park bench, vans with loud hailers parked at a local beauty spot yelling about the two metre rule. The crazy list is endless. Yet patients were sent back to care home from hospitals without being tested ! Ticking time bombs or what ? There was not much logic or common sense to a lot of it.

This thread is a great example of recollections may vary! Plus it's interesting how many experts there are now we are looking back at events.

I also notice the op hasn't been bothered to come back to the thread...pathetic really.

I suppose lots of it didn't bother me. I'm teetotal so pubs closing doesn't bother me, I only go in pubs to have a meal so that was OK. I live at the coast so our walks were by the beach so no park benches and I never heard anyone shouting on loud hailers. Don't think I saw a police officer in 2020. Couldn't see family but we did online stuff, had my shopping delivered so no issue there.

Maybe that is why people have different views on it, some people found it harder than others.

The care home thing was a scandal.

The summer of 2020 wasn't bad was it? I live in a seaside town and it was packed with holiday makers, they certainly made the most of eat out to help out as every restaurant was full, the beaches were full. I can't remember the dates but July and August is the best I can do.

Depends where you were and what you were observing. Leicester was in restrictions throughout, then GM and elsewhere in the North west were announced at the end of July.

Obviously a lot of that wasn't stuck to. People travelled our of areas with local restrictions to areas with more options, which was entirely predictable. I'm thinking if you were in a seaside town that probably wasn't a local restrictions area in summer 2020?

Personally I remember that summer quite fondly, but I was breaking the rules by then, in terms of mixing households. So I don't remember specific time frames for rules. (A quick google tells me things loosened up more than I thought over summer, even if briefly).

As a PP said, what we remember will be influenced by our circumstances. For those who lived alone like me, the social rules were the big, difficult, memorable ones. Being able to go places seemed to matter a lot less than being able to see others. I remember some unpleasant rules under the tier system where pubs were open but we weren't supposed to meet another household indoors at home.

@BogRollBOGOF

We are still paying dearly for prolonged restrictions in so many ways. Some people paid for lockdowns with their lives- they are just as valuable as Covid deaths. Some people will be living with the damage of lockdowns for many decades to come.

And lets not forget the 3+ million self employed, freelancers and casual workers who were excluded from the covid support schemes. That's a whopping 10% of the workforce! Many had to use their savings just to survive, or sell their homes, or sell their businesses/livelihoods. Many closed their businesses as costs continued but there was no income to cover, nor any support for living costs. Some had to sell their homes. For a few dozen, suicide was the outcome after losing their homes and livelihoods. But, it's "ok", Rishi said "no one would be left behind", then as the scale of the excluded scandal became clear, he changed that to "we can't help everyone"!

Excluding the self employed from support was appalling. I get that it might not have been possible to sort something out as quickly as for employees, so a delay was understandable at first. But the furlough scheme went on until September 2021, and we had months of lockdowns. There was plenty of time. It was a choice, and a bad one.