Do any of arch-lockdowners regret it?

[Refractory]

Just that really.

I haven’t really been on MN since 2020 because I found the near complete support for lockdown far too upsetting.

the lockdowners in my life seem to not think about it much. For them, it’s just over.

with hindsight do you wish you’d been more sceptical?

would love a civil conversation about this.

Lockdowns had some benefits and drawbacks

Obviously they did save tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives.
Lead to WFH being very common which has continued for many.
Lots of treatment was disrupted but as bad as if the NHS had collapsed which would have happened without them.

Drawbacks

It was hard on many people no bubbles to start with.
Lots of medical treatment including hospital and dentists disrupted
Education disrupted
Damaged social cohesion / sense of community long term

In our street, lockdown improved the sense of community, @Walkden. We set up a WhatsApp group that is still going strong, and people used it to offer help to the street - if someone was going to the shop, they would offer to pick up things for their neighbours, for example.

"In our street, lockdown improved the sense of community"
**
Well it may have helped on individual streets etc but I just think about

1. people on here labelling others dementors
2. people reporting each other for parties etc
3. people labelled as "lockdown lovers" even now or told they were living in fear whilst others said they only cared about their own families
4. schools and anyone saying they work with the public saying behaviour is a lot worse than it used to be
5. people saying life is full of risk and harm to most people being minimised "as having underlying conditions"
6. lots of antivax and hybrid immunity leading to whooping cough outbreaks etc

There was a sense of community to start with but as it dragged on and became clear politicians etc were not sticking to it it did become divisive.

It was difficult to completely keep to the rules, (though I did my best to) as I was continuing to work in school.( we did this on a rota basis amongst our staff). I didn’t actually catch Covid till we were back at school properly! My husband , who had all his vaccinations, (as did I) as a medically ‘vulnerable ‘ person, has never had it! We complied as far as possible, but I wouldn’t say to the absolute letter.
All the fuss about the ‘ parties‘ at No 10 shook us a bit because we had a socially distanced Christmas quiz on the last day of term, when we had all been in the same building all day. I feel that was a bit of a mountain out of a molehill and I’m pretty sure plenty of other establishments did similar….. not to mention all those who visited our seaside town, outside , in the fresh air, in their absolute droves!
I would follow the rules again, if, God forbid, it happened again, but I hope not because I really found wearing masks difficult.

Yes, they have small miserable lives so want everyone else to have small miserable lives.

Im simply pointing out that its only the working classes who seemed to be told that they needed to "protect the NHS" Politicians and celebs got to carry on as normal. Re Strictly and Dancing on Ice. I dont watch either but if i did id have been fucking pissed off watching them all glammed up when us "plebs" couldnt even get a haircut, So no it didnt cheer all of us up. Was bad enough seeing this in other programmes. Hancocks hair didnt seem to grow either.

When Priyanka Chopra got her hair done in Jan 2021 certain quarters were falling over themselves trying to convince us that this was ok because it was work so this serious virus would know this and not come near. Bloody intelligent virus this.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hairdressers-slam-new-discriminatory-covid-23883095

So you see you obviously misunderstood my post.

No. Because those things were allowed to go ahead, because on balance it was worth the risk. More entertainment at home = less people out socializing.
It's nothing to do with celebs vs "plebs". The hairdresser thing is a different issue, so don't conflate them.

Yes we must not point out inconvienient things

Point out what you like. But you can't moan about a TV show and expect everyone to know you meant hairdressers.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/hairstylist-slams-one-rule-them-23452197

Becky Robinson was recently at home watching Dancing on Ice when she had a sad realisation.
The hairstylist, who has been forced to close her business during the coronavirus pandemic, says she was hit by the "unfairness" of TV celebrities, such as Holly Willoughby, being able to glam up and have their hair and make-up done, while those who don't work in the industry can't.

The 33-year-old, who specialises in hair extensions, feels as if it's "one rule for us, one rule for them".
Becky took particular issue with Holly's "very public" display of gratitude for her beauty team on social media ahead of the skating show, describing it as the "icing on the cake"
She claims "hair and beauty is hair and beauty" regardless of whether you're working with stars or "so-and-sos down the road" and that the rules should be the same for all.
The single mum, who lives in Sandbach, Cheshire, said: "Something hit home to me - I thought 'hold on a minute, I'm watching this and seeing they're putting up Instagram posts thanking their celebrity stylists'.
"It was made very public - I then thought to myself 'that isn't fair' - it was kind of the icing on the cake seeing that.
"Good on her [hairstylist] that she's allowed to work. It's infuriating I have an 11-month-old baby, a house to run and rent to pay and I'm not allowed to work, yet if you're in the spotlight you're allowed to.

She continues: "Considering we're in a pandemic and a national lockdown, for the sake of live TV I don't think that's acceptable.
"It's just frustrating that if you're a somebody or a celebrity you can get your hair and make-up done but I can't go and do so-and-so's hair down the road.
"I would do every regulation possible and tick every single box [to operate safely] if it meant I was able to work."
Becky added that her rant was "not a dig at Holly in particular" as she enjoys watching her and Phillip Schofield, but she's furious that it is "one rule" for those in TV and another for the "regular working mum".

Becky shared her views on the matter on Facebook and her post amassed more than 5,800 likes, comments and shares.
Many people were equally as furious to see stars getting makeovers and accused them of "rubbing salt in the wound" to those who had to go without haircuts, socialising or even work.
One person replied to her post, writing: "Surely they should be doing their own hair and make-up. It's rubbing salt in the wounds of all the hairdressers and beauty therapists that are struggling now. TV is needed, I agree, but they could do their own hair and makeup."
Another commented: "Absolute f*ing ps take. The little people like me who on are on the bones of my a*e because I'm a nail tech but the people who are already making a mint anyway carry on making a fucking mint and have techs/muas exempt from the rules what a joke

From my post at 13.58

id have been fucking pissed off watching them all glammed up when us "plebs" couldnt even get a haircut

@Walkden

I agree. I wasn’t aware of the supposed ‘lockdown lovers’ on here, but I was aware of others sneering and calling others dementors. And if lockdown is brought up again on here (and I would say ‘arch lockdowners’ is pretty goady) - it tends to be from the camp who thought anyone who thought it best to follow restrictions were dementors.

Looking back, I think I was more cautious than I needed to be. That is with the benefit of hindsight. I would still rather be safe, but I feel like the restrictions could have ended earlier.

Lockdown was undeniably cruel. It caused much suffering and likely actually saved far fewer lives than we were led to believe it would. It was panic.
Bear in mind that at least 25% of Covid cases were contracted in hospital.
Turning the National Health Service into the National Covid Service caused and will continue to cause many many deaths and much suffering for years to come.
Watching the vast majority of people blindly obeying ever more draconian restrictions and reporting neighbours for minor infractions of the 1 hour outside rule taught me how 20th century dictators were able to manipulate whole populations into accepting their exteme policies.
After all it's for your own good, your neighbours will report you and punishments for non-compliance are disproportionately harsh.

The mortality rate for Covid was under 2%. The majority of deaths were of people older than average life expectancy.
So what on Earth will happen when we have a pandemic with, say a 50% mortality rate? That affects young more than the old?
History shows we have had pandemics like that before.

What will happen is that essential workers will refuse to go to work and society will break down.

What do you think the NHS should have done when people were seriously ill? Are you suggesting people seriously ill/dying from covid should just have been locked in their houses with a red cross on the door and left to die?

Exactly, @Iwasafool - the NHS had to treat the covid sufferers!

Maybe if successive governments, from the 80s onwards, hadn’t whittled away at the ‘spare’ capacity in the NHS (beds and the staff needed to run them), the NHS would have been better able to treat the covid patients and still treat more of the other patients too.

I trained in the 80s, and it was not unusual to have empty beds on the wards. I worked in a busy city centre hospital, and I don’t remember lots of patients waiting on trolleys in Casualty because they couldn’t be found beds - it might not be on the right ward for the speciality, but they had beds.

But this cost money - even when occupancy was not at 100%, you had to staff the hospital as if it was - and this was seen as ‘fat’ that could be trimmed, not as necessary to allow the system to cope with sudden demands.

No-ones said 'covid patients shouldn't be treated' have they? Its been 'patients who required treatment for things that weren't covid should have been cared for too.'

@DoreenonTill8 - @IamMoodyBlue said ”Turning the National Health Service into the National Covid Service caused and will continue to cause many many deaths and much suffering for years to come.” - which did imply to me that they thought it was wrong of the NHS to prioritise covid patients.

As I said earlier, the problem was the lack of any spare capacity in the NHS - we knew it was a problem because hospitals were struggling to cope with winter flu outbreaks etc - so it was no surprise that there was so little extra capacity left in the NHS for other patients once the emergent covid cases had been accommodated.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius do you agree they did then become the 'National Covid Service' and they were correct in stopping providing a service to anyone else?

Well I asked the poster what they thought should be done. They said, "Turning the National Health Service into the National Covid Service caused and will continue to cause many many deaths and much suffering for years to come." It wasn't turned in the the "National Covid Service" on some sort of whim was it, seriously ill people were admitted to hospital.

It's a safe bet that if anything like that ever gets a proper hold, we're all fucked.

For me, the more interesting question is the point at which that process starts. I think the space where a pandemic is dangerous enough to make people accept significant restrictions but not so dangerous that things start to break down is much smaller than it was in 2020.

Closing all the dentists are particularly crazy. Only happened here.