Do any of arch-lockdowners regret it?

[Refractory]

Just that really.

I haven’t really been on MN since 2020 because I found the near complete support for lockdown far too upsetting.

the lockdowners in my life seem to not think about it much. For them, it’s just over.

with hindsight do you wish you’d been more sceptical?

would love a civil conversation about this.

I think what @gogogo12345 means is that people who were at that point ill/required treatment were refused because of the risk that SOME people, who were 'vulnerable' if they came into contact with other people might catch covid, and then they
could get unwell. And this was given presendence over people who required to be treated and care at that moment. So cancer care stopped, general medical care stopped 'just in case'..

Lockdown did slow the spread down and help prevent a situation like in Italy where staff were having to choose who to treat. I don't regret most of it, but some parts I think could have been less strict.

@DoreenonTill8

Cancer care didn’t stop. My family member had her bowel cancer treated throughout the pandemic and her hospital worked incredibly hard to save her life, while being one of the most overwhelmed hospitals with Covid patients.

They were completely at breaking point, so has there been no management of viral spread, many more would have died and they wouldn’t have been able to even attempt to treat her cancer.

Yes it did. Went from f 2 f consultant appts to over phone for some, lost a friend to secondary breast cancer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7862913/

@DoreenonTill8

But in my anecdotal situation, her bowel cancer WAS operated on, had stoma/stoma reversal over the pandemic. I sat with her wearing a face mask as she got her cancer diagnosis.

I’d say services were reduced as they deployed their resources to the influx of Covid patients - but they still saved her.
Had there been no control of viral spread at all, there would have been even more resources required for ICU/Covid patients - - my Mum wouldn’t have been prioritised all and wouldn’t be alive now.

Why is it more important that people didn't die of covid than not dying of other things though?

Using my own mother as an example. She became unwell. The GP wouldn't see her in person. Just kept sending prescriptions for antibiotics for " chest infection"

Of course this did nothing at all for her heart failure.

By the time she was unable to move due to being so ill ( which had we all followed the rules to the letter no one would've known about as my brother shouldn't have popped in to see her) she was taken to hospital and stated being treated for the heart failure it was too late.

But the heart failure was treatable IF. a doctor had seen her.

So why was her lack of treatment and death warranted to stop someone else " possibly" catching covid and dying,?

@Gogogo12345

I’m so sorry to hear that. In my experience the hospital was just rammed with patients who needed urgent help and they didn’t have enough resources to treat everyone. I think had there been no attempt to control viral spread, no lockdown, no masks, no vaccine - there would have been even more demand on those over stretched resources and more deaths. There were 20 ambulances queuing outside with emergency patients, they all needed a bed, care and the ambulances were needed too. It was bedlam.

If the GP had bothered to actually SEE my mother then she could've been treated with medication and not even needed to go to the hospital

So maybe there wouldn't have been so many people in ambulances in emergency if the GP service hadn't locked themselves away and become inaccessible.

TBH even in 2024 without the covid issues there are queues of ambulances at hospitals and patients waiting hours/days to be seen so that not just " COS COVID"

If GPs had continued with face to face appointments, they would have been at a heightened risk of Covid. Then they would have been off sick. Better a phone appointment than none because the doctors are off sick.

@Gogogo12345

But then on the flipside, if doctors saw patients in person : with many patients often vulnerable - they’d have caught it, the doctors would have caught it - resulting in less doctors available and more demand on hospitals.

Not if people are not getting treated though when they ARE ill rather than " just in case" someone gets ill. Doctors are at risk of catching anything infectious from patients all the time.

You're right. We should all have been stuck at home, by ourselves, with nothing to watch on the TV either. They should have just permanently canceled all fun. Would that have made you happy?

I’ll be honest. I did flout the rules. But not in a way to spread covid.

Firstly for context- I continued to work in a school, face to face every day with the children of people with high contact/ risk roles. That was my context that partly made my decision.

I walked A LOT outdoors. For my mental health, I didn’t stay in. I also rode my bike to get out and stay healthy.

I carried on weekly shops in the supermarket because it was far cheaper. I used public transport to work most days.

I took my children out to the parks for their health and fitness.

I wasn’t going to parties or crowded spaces, but I did weight up the options for our health and wellness. I didn’t follow rules to the letter but I was considered in my approach. I carried on activities as soon as possible for my children

This, absolutely this.

It absolutely was not to protect ECV people. The reason for it was because they were scared of the entire NHS collapsing - no other reason. “Stay at home and protect the NHS”. The reason we couldn’t see doctors was to protect the doctors.

Please don’t blame vulnerable people for this. After all, the cancer patients that couldn’t get treatment are the very clinically vulnerable people you’re talking about. (My uncle also had treatment stopped during lockdown, and was sent home and left to die).

Your experience didn’t happen to all. My oh had his cancer treatment stopped. He was due a chemo infusion on the Thursday of lockdown week. They phoned to cancel on the morning just as he was leaving home. They said they’d phone to reschedule but never did. He waited a few weeks. Then started to try to phone them to ask when it would start again, no one ever answered the phone, he left messages but they never replied. In desperation, he went to the hospital to find the oncology department virtually empty. It was eventually 5-6 months before his treatment re started.

That's horrific.

I followed the rules, as I had so little understanding so I trusted in experts, which I think was the right thing to do.
In moments, maybe I feel those less vulnerable could have led more normal lives and with a stronger protective net around those more vulnerable and people that had direct contact with them. It’s difficult to say though.

To be honest though, I’m far more peeved about Gov lack of preparation, crap PPE through Tory mate contracts and partygate.

Exactly and @Badbadbunny I'm so sorry you had this experience too. And @Anonym00se am absolutely not blaming cancer patients! My post was anger as a cancer patient DID NOT get the care she needed because of the 'what if x' and the fact that she actually had cancer and needed treatment was cast aside. And the government absolutely did exploit ecv people and guilt trip others. Surely you haven't forgotten the 'look X in the eye' posters?

@Badbadbunny

My experience did happen. But cancer care was severely disrupted.
From NHS England:

“The coronavirus pandemic has presented major challenges for all healthcare systems. One of the most significant impacts was a sharp reduction in the number of people coming forward and being referred urgently with suspected cancer and referred from screening programmes.
When coronavirus prevalence was at its highest at the start of the pandemic, this resulted in some people facing longer waits for diagnosis, some treatments being delivered in different ways or being interrupted or stopped on the grounds of clinical safety, and some follow-up care being disrupted.
Yet, thanks to the efforts of NHS staff and their partners, including many staff and volunteers in the cancer charities, the number of people receiving first or subsequent treatment was maintained at 86% of that in the same period in 2019 (March to September).”

With no attempt to manage viral spread, the situation would have been far worse.

I'm really sorry to hear that. A pp has also added some perspective which has provided another angle on this. I wasn't trying to suggest that protecting against potential future deaths should come at the expense of treating people who are ill in the here and now.

But that's what exactly DID happen though

Absolutely, it was odd how HCP had the ppe to work in covid wards and with covid positive patients, but those who were testing as negative also couldn't see patients who were also testing as negative just in case.

It's alarming how many people actually enjoyed living very austere, rigidly limited lives. And how they particularly enjoyed that others were forced to do the same. Nothing to do with COVID and everything to do with them being very weirdly wired.