Should a man that didn't want the baby pay maintenance

[dillydallybub]

So as the title says, should a man that didn't want a baby pay maintenance?
Please give me your thoughts and opinions

I saw someone comment elsewhere that by choosing to have sex with a woman, a man is deferring to her right to choose what to do and I absolutely agree with that. This includes the right to change their mind even if a woman initially indicates she would have an abortion if pregnant. We all know that there’s a massive difference between an abstract concept and reality.

Men need to stop living in the fantasy land of consequence free sex. That is a fiction. Then they can make decisions accordingly.

Rape? The man raped her because she didn't take the pill??

No....if him having sex with her without a previously agreed condom is rape (of her), then her having sex with him without previously agreed contraception is rape (of him) too surely?

I have indicated the sexes, which I assumed would be obvious. Apparently not.

A few posters have mentioned a woman saying she would have an abortion if she accidentally became pregnant, and if she later changed her mind she has broken the agreement.

Is it common to have that specific conversation agreeing to have abortion if necessary before having sex?

No matter how many pages and how many arguments and how close posters get to skirting that line that becomes personal, it doesn't change the fact that the buck does stop with the man.

'The condom broke'
'She said she's on the pill'

Honestly, who is going to admit that they just didn't want to use a condom?
Used properly, contraception is very, very effective. Yes, 'accidents' happen but they are few and far between. 'True' ones anyway 🤷‍♀️

Most of the scenarios on MN and I imagine it also happens in RL are people having sex with people they barely know. I have ZERO problem with that but, if that woman you just met, or have only known a little while says "it's ok, I'm on the pill", and you choose not to use a condom, not even to protect you AND her from STIs, then expecting sympathy because 'she lied' is stupid

Believing any of the old chestnuts thrown around because you want to get your end in and then crying foul is stupid.

Yep, women absolutely can try and 'trick' a man. I know there are many not nice women out there. But if his own selfishness means he doesn't attempt to ensure both are protected, or the innocent party at home unaware which happens often, he's stupid. If you choose not to have a conversation about possible consequences and scenarios, Not an in the moment small talk, lets get on with it chat 😆

Aligning yourself to someone like that is also stupid. Of course, your stupid mate/brother/partner/ isn't going to tell you he fucked up 🤷‍♀️

If a man doesn’t want a baby he doesn’t have penetrative sex, he wears a condom, or he gets a vasectomy, regardless of what the woman says. Men are autonomous beings and are fully in charge of their own reproductive welfare, and the responsibility that comes with that. Once that sperm is in a vagina the man has no say in what happens to it. Men should be taught that from the age of 12 and I’m amazed some men still think they can be ‘tricked’ into fathering a child. They fully know the risks they’re taking.

If you think hormones are irrelevant then just go celibate. As after all , your sex drive is a result of hormones. Abstinence is the only way to avoid pregnancy. All other forms of contraception are not 100% foolproof. If you engage in sex, you take the risk of creating life and therefore supporting that life.
Talking about "reneging" on an agreement ffs it's a human fucking life and until you've had one grow inside you then you have no idea what it's like.
I've had an early termination as well and I wouldn't wish the experience on my worst enemy.

@Wavescrashingonthebeach,

‘Talking about "reneging" on an agreement ffs it's a human fucking life and until you've had one grow inside you then you have no idea what it's like.’

Is it a human ‘fucking’ life at a few weeks gestation?

Or is that the Schrödinger’s life, which is a life for the purpose of feckless men but a bundle of cells, or even parasite, if you are terminating it?

@Newbutoldfather it is a life when conception occurs. That is the scientific definition.

Religion and society has opinions but that is the fact. The woman who is pregnant has autonomy of her body to continue or not continue the pregnancy.

The separate autonomous male being has no right to a say in the woman's choice.

Because he has sex, and sex has the known proven risk of pregnancy then he has no right to shout unfair. He doesn't want to risk pregnancy he knows what to do.

Thank you for your answer. Articulated better than I could have ever done.

I'm still waiting for a response to the question of what if a man who was too drunk to give consent but fully able to have an erection is sexually assaulted by a woman who gets pregnant.

The sex wasn't consensual.

The same as a woman who is raped and gets pregnant. She still has to allow her rapist to get access to the child. If she has an abortion she still has to meet any costs such as costs of taking time off work if she only gets SMP, travel to mainland if she lives in N Ireland.
The law puts the child first.

Surely the rapist gets prosecuted and sent to jail, though even an allegation of rape (true or false) is enough to destroy his life. However a woman sexually assaulting a man, no one's going to take that seriously let alone send her to jail.

You surely must be aware that the number of men who actually get prosecuted and sent to jail for rape is TINY.

Take responsibility for your own reproductive choices. If you didn't then you pay for the child you created.

I wouldn't keep a child with a man who didn't want it, nothing to do with him It bad for the child

I'm a bit torn because I think the worst fathers are not necessarily those who opt out altogether, but the ones who dip in and out of a child's life, pay minimal child support and cause all sorts of aggravation to the mother, by insisting on their 'rights' and using the child as a means to control her!

Maybe in some circumstances it would be kinder to the child if the 'father' could give up all legal rights and responsibilities and there was no messing about trying to get blood out of a stone money from a reluctant man and trying to force a relationship that he resents.

Obviously men who were already active fathers in their dc's life should be made to pay half of the true costs of raising that child because they already consented/chose to be dads.

Yes. Every time you have sex you have the chance of making a child. You have options to prevent that - use them.

You're not serious are you? In the vanishingly rare cases when a man is convicted, it still doesn't ruin anything. The most recent example of this is the Dutch volleyball player who repeatedly raped a 13 yo child, after grooming her and getting her drunk. He is one of the tiny number who is convicted. He served 1 year and is now representing the Netherlands at the Olympics. He married a police officer and has a family now.

And that's a man who was convicted of repeatedly raping a child. Rape a grown woman and there's a 99% chance it will have no effect on a man's life at all.

No one takes a woman being raped seriously. Convictions are so low that most people now say rape has effectively been decriminalised.

@BigFatLiar and even if rapists are found guilty, very few go to jail. And going to jail is not a reason to deny custody access to a child. Certainly when a rapist comes out of jail he can apply and will be given the right to see his child.
You clearly do not understand how all this works.

Sorry, this story says the poor girl was 12.

https://nltimes.nl/2024/07/05/volleyball-player-convicted-raping-12-year-old-representing-netherlands-olympics

You would have an abortion because the father does not want the baby even if you do?
Few women would make a decision about abortion based on this.

Surely if he is able to get an erection and is able to have sex then he has given permission.

All non consensual sex is rape.

However, very sadly getting convictions for all cases is horrendously difficult.