Should a man that didn't want the baby pay maintenance

[dillydallybub]

So as the title says, should a man that didn't want a baby pay maintenance?
Please give me your thoughts and opinions

If a man said they couldn’t control themselves because of their testosterone they would be rightly ridiculed

I know that you haven't got a clue why this is a ridiculous comparison to a man thinking he can abandon all responsibility for his own child and I know you'll treat us all to a wall of text about it (I'm sure I'm not the only one to be familiar with you).

But to anyone who isn't here for the sole purpose of lecturing and condescending to women while being wrong, and who understands that parental responsibility outweighs a man's desire to have anyone but him carry the consequences for getting his end away, this honestly sums it up. Men should be allowed to abandon a woman and their child alone because you wouldn't like it if they said they couldn't control themselves because testosterone, would you, huh, huh, huh??

Like I said, I know you truly don't see why this isnt comparing apples to oranges as much as comparing teapots to golfing umbrellas and not even a fraction as intelligent as you clearly think it is. But I'm just going to assure you that to anyone who isn't blinded by the idea of consequence free male shagging, it's plain as day. It's ridiculous. I'd laugh if I didn't know you were deadly serious.

Ah, yes, By saying women have a right to change their minds once a pregnancy and a baby are a reality and not an abstract concept, we are infantalising them. Thank God they have @Newbutoldfather to stand up for them and allow them to be adults, eh?

And poor menz. Dishonourable women demanding they support the child they had a part in creating when biology kicks in. They should just stick to the verbal contract, sod the child and protect a man's rights not to pay for his kids. It's the only right thing to do.

I totally agree. I thought @Naunet post was also talking about 50/50 care so was addressing that point.

The "feminism says women are strong and independent so they AND MY CHILDREN should be obligated to take my shit treatment" school of progressive sexism and deadbeat shaggerism.

Ah, be nice! My eyes have been opened as to how much men must live in fear of dishonourable women, just ruining their lives willy nilly. I am overcome with emotion, I tell you. Overcome.

Given how much biology, women and apparently everything victimises them, it's really quite inexplicable that they rule the world.

(The response is going to be a right corker. We all know that, right? I can hardly bloody wait. Do you think we'll get "women deserve it because they're not shy, reluctant virgins, consequence free shags and abandoned kids should be our reward for not being rapists"? There was a dude yesterday who did that.)

In almost every circumstance, certainly.

I can only think of a few extreme circumstances (say, sperm stolen from a clinic) where I might feel differently.

The degree of infantilisation of adult women by soi-disant feminists on this board is unreal.

MNHQ I hope you are impressed with my powers of resistance. You know what I want to say, and I'm not saying it. I need my MN Restraint Medal.

'Kin hell, really?! The Incels don't even try to hide their tracks, do they? Couldn't they make it a bit more fun? "Let's guess the Incel" is a bit boring when they have flashing neon signs next to their posts.

You are my new hero. But you can count on me to lower the tone on your behalf. Just whisper in my ear, I'm a woman, easily directed and infantalised to do another's bidding.

PM me?

I do like the idea of infantilised minions...

Has anyone talked about women raping drunk men to steal their sperm yet? Because that definitely happens. I know a man who won't pay child support because it happened to him. True Fact.

How on earth do you know? Were you there when it happened?

@FrustyOldCrump "How on earth do you know? Were you there when it happened?"

He told me. Why would he lie?

I don't think CurlewKate believes him...

A man who doesn't want to pay for a baby has one opportunity only to ensure he doesn't have to. And that opportunity is not available after he has had sex.

So what this seems to be boiling down to is men complaining about fairness - after so many thousands of years of married women being considered chattel and only a few decades since marital rape was recognised as a thing, men are complaining about unfairness in relationships with women.

Well, well, well...

A further part of the issue is that some men apparently don't see babies and children as people in their own right, with rights of their own, but just as add-ons to whatever woman they happen to be seeing at that point in time. So they think they ought to be able to ditch the kids along with the woman.

But what if he was wearing a condom. They're not 100% effective.

Indeed they're not. They carry a small risk and men who use them accept that risk.

You don't use condoms so that you can argue philosophically that you now deserve to be able to ditch your child. You use condoms to reduce the risk of pregnancy and infection down to almost nil. Abstention is the only way to get the risk down to absolute nil, so you look at your options, assess the risk, and make your choice. Abortion and pregnancy both carry risks too.

Trouble is that men don’t actually know if what a woman says is true. I don’t just mean about contraception (I would be entirely nervous about having sex without doubling up on contraception so they may feel fine with Condom and pill but just condom alone is risky) but also about intentions. I KNOW if I got pregnant I would not have a baby. I can tell my boyfriend that all I want but in reality if I got pregnant I could change my mind.

He is consenting on the basis that we use two forms of contraception (this is hypothetical- I have a mirena and am old) AND that worst case scenario I feel like him and have no desire for a child. Is that consent still valid if I keep forgetting to take my pill but don’t tell him and I then get pregnant and decide to keep it?

Am just musing- not sure of the answer!

Is that consent still valid if I keep forgetting to take my pill but don’t tell him and I then get pregnant and decide to keep it?

Yes, of course. Any contraception he's not in charge of isn't his place to dictate. He can rely only on the contraception he uses and he makes a risk assessment based on that. A fertile couple has sex, they both know the risks.

He doesn't get to abandon his child because of his partner. That's the crux so many people are missing. His duty to his own child isn't about his relationship with you. It's about his relationship with his child.

Of course he has to pay. Having sex runs the risk of making a baby. Don't want to risk that? Don't have sex.

Its an interesting point though.

As devil's advocate......
If a woman consents to sex with a condom and the man then doesnt use one or removes it, then its considered rape. She had no control over it and was unaware it was unprotected sex.

So if a man consents to sex with a woman as long as she is on the pill and she doesnt take it, surely that should be considered rape too? As the conditions under which consent was given, were not fulfilled and it was beyond his control.