Lucy Letby ( To understand)

[PassingStranger]

What made her kill these babies. Been in the news again today.

It's hard to understand?
Presume as she is in prison and not a hospital, she is not mentally ill?

Will anyone try to find out, I guess if people don't admit they are guilty it's hard too.

Instead of people saying give me 5 mins in a cell with her, surely it's better to stop this happening or maybe it's not possible?
Why does she want to be one of the most hated women in the universe and not give a shit about the babies families and even her own parents?

So much better to be known for doing something nice and have people like you?
AIBU to wonder why she took this road in life?

From recent trial after sentencing

'as she was led away, she turned round and said: “I’m innocent.”

If your tiny baby was in NICU

HTH, gotta go.

As much as I disagree with @Mirabai , I don't think she's posting in bad faith or being disrespectful to the victims, and I think she has read a lot (more than me at least). It's the people who just read the New Yorker article and think they're experts that are a bit ludicrous.

They looked at evidence. For months (years in the police and legal professionals' case).

And prejudices don't generally go against to presentable young white females.

They go in favour of them, which is possibly partly why you and your mate or two on here are so deep in the throes of delusion about this case.

You're still avoiding her question, Mirabai. She asked "If your tiny baby was in NICU, knowing what you know, would you want LL to look after your tiny, poorly baby?"

It's a great question. I can answer categorically that I wouldn't want LL to look after my baby. Would you?

being disrespectful to the victims

She was when she sarcastically wrote about "a rampage" and callously listed the injuries to the babies in the terms she did.

Great question. Will anyone answer it I wonder...

Oh I think we're in for a Vivian Westwood on Michael Jackson moment here.

(Jonathan Ross commented that he certainly wouldn't leave his kids with him, she responded in a very offended manner that she absolutely would).

The world is full of nutters, what can we do.

It still wasn't worth it even if she did get the attention of colleagues and the registrar.
The registrar couldn't give a toss about her and won't be visiting her in prison.
What is the point.The attention she craved was very shortlived, now she's banged up for life.
I'd rather be dead than serving a while life term prison order.
What is the point?

You don't "get" what motivated her or what she was getting out of it because you are not her.

She is clearly psychopathic, among other things.

She also thought she wouldn't get caught. She was so confident, she stridently declared she'd be back on the ward in a letter to the consultants who reported their concerns about her, and they were threatened with being reported to the GMC.

Apparently the unexpected deaths started before her involvement with the registrar, so she was already murdering or injuring. Deaths at her previous hospital are also being investigated.

She is similar to any number of murderers in prison or dead; they're all a case of "what's the point?".

I believe her

I imagine she didn’t foresee going to prison for it! At the time she obviously felt invincible and thought she would never get caught.

Must be pretty thick then, same as Shipman.

Your not going to get away with murdering people forever. It will catch up with you in the end.

I agree. The way she spoke to colleagues ('if they have nothing or minimal on me they'll look silly, not me') suggests she thought she'd get away with it.

If I was accused of killing tiny, defenceless babies, I would have accepted a move to a different hospital, not considering whether the evidence they had on my was 'minimal' or not, or who will look silly.

I think it's an addiction, and addicts don't tend to weigh up consequences to any great extent. Just needed the hot and deal with the consequences later.

I think it's human nature to think that what you've gotten away with to date, you'll continue getting away with.

It's a fallacy, of course but nonetheless, humans base future expectations on past experience.

Some people also underestimate risks. That is one of the traits of personality disorders etc.

Thick is an interesting word, since they both qualified as medical professionals, his route a bit more arduous than hers, and were apparently competent enough to keep their jobs as such. Though I vaguely remember he was involved in some drug misuse or sale or something.

I'd put the 'thickness" down to psychopathy, rather than intelligence, as it were.

Prison are full of people who didn't think they would be caught.
You have to consider when you choose to do something the real possibility that you will.

Yes, there was a tremendous arrogance and ego ... And lack of maturity (?) there.

Also significant that Daddy was brought in to argue her case against the big, bad, bullying docs and it appeared (to her) to work.

Notice how her Mum asked police to take her instead when LL was arrested.

Mummy and Daddy would sort everything out, I think - she hadn't matured beyond that and her parents probably fostered that.

I've noticed similar behaviour in less severe cases of sociopathy, its always "my Daddy is on his way", "phone my Mom", "my Daddy will do ABC".

I don't think she thought she'd be caught or be made to take responsibility.

I also think she thought that, because she'd never been seen or caught doing anything definitive, she wouldn't be caught or prosecuted.

This is the same for all serial murderers though OP.

We can’t apply normal person’s logic to their crimes, no matter some might want to conflate a superficial ability to hide in plain site with some, as being normal.

There is a high degree of arrogance, belief of being able to get away with it and compulsive urges, coupled with lack of genuine empathy.

All defy any logic as a normal person would not want to inflict pain and death on babies.

Faulty logic to clutch at straws and conclude that means it didn’t happen - not saying you are OP, but others are with their flawed ramblings and straw clutching.

This is actually how she got away with it for so long.

But people don't.

Especially younger people.

And especially people with personality disorders, sociopathy, psychopathy etc.

To me it is simply not possible that a human could see a neonatal baby (or any human, but that's the tiniest, most vulnerable human you can see) as an object, whose death you are indifferent to and as a tool to achieve something; without being a psychopath.

I was never even particularly a baby person, but when I was in NNICU for work (not medical) I was deeply affected by those little tiny babies, I welled up walking out the first time.
Again, even as a non parent at that time, I felt for those people sitting beside the incubators, not able to hold their baby normally and go home with them like the other new parents you saw walking out every day.

That's fairly normal for a human brain, I think. Probably even more so for a female.

There is something fundamentally missing or malfunctioning in the brain of a person who can behave the way she did to other humans, especially to premature babies and their parents.

She’s not thick. She’s extremely arrogant with a grossly inflated sense of herself probably a narcissist and sociopath. And has probably convinced herself in some way that her lies are true and that she’s the victim. Her intelligence is probably what made it take so long to catch her, tampering with notes and the like and all the texts to build up an image of being innocent. Whereas Beverley Allitt was caught fairly quickly because she didn’t do any of that stuff.

Yes the law recognises duress and insanity but that doesn't stop them punishing them either.

Off the top of my head I remember the brutal assault on the Welsh girl Tirion Lewis, the boyfriend was a paranoid schizophrenic, he still got convicted of GBH and the judge said he was to be sent to a psychiatric hospital but the parole board rather than the hospital would decide when or if he could ever get out.

I actually remember reading something about that at the time like the drugs he would be on to treat the schizophrenia were so strong that it woudn't be safe to take them unsupervised (and I suppose they couldn't trust him to take them either) so therefore it was unlikely he'd ever get out. I can't find an update on him so I don't know if he ever did.

There definitely is a congenital aspect to many criminals, I don't think that is in dispute because things do show up on brain scans etc,

Interestingly there are a disproportionate amount of left-handedness among convicted pedophiles, there's also certain facial markers like attached ear lobes and things that show up on brain scans like less white matter so the experts do think that it's likely there is a developmental basis for it.

I'm not sure if it's the same among pedophiles who don't go on to abuse. I would imagine that it's not or that it's less likely, because there is clearly something extra wrong and antisocial with those who go on to abuse compared to those who don't.

Agreed, the idea of my parent coming into my workplace is cringeworthy.

If they do ever release a psychiatrist's report on why she did it, it would be interesting, as she is still an enigma.

As someone who believes she's guilty, I thought the way she was so careful of her own comfort when she was arrested (getting in the back of the police car gingerly whilst saying she had a knee op) was quite galling. What about the comfort of the babies she hurt and murdered?

And her lie about being arrested in her nightgown...such a deliberate attempt to garner synpathy from the jury, when the bodycam shows she was wearing a Lee Cooper tracksuit.

Interestingly there are a disproportionate amount of left-handedness among convicted pedophiles, there's also certain facial markers like attached ear lobes and things that show up on brain scans like less white matter so the experts do think that it's likely there is a developmental basis for it.

There are apparently observed brain differences in "true" paedophiles.

True being people who are exclusively attracted sexually and emotionally to children and who rarely if ever form relationships with other adults.

An important thing to keep in mind, however, is that a huge amount of child sex abuse is not perpetrated by "true" paedophiles.

It is perpetuated by men who are attracted to adults as well, who form relationships with adults and who present as normal. The defining traits of their personalities - which cause them to perpetrate child sex abuse (and often other sex offences) are sexual predation, general predation, exploitation, lack of empathy, lack of integrity, selfishness, opportunism, dishonesty etc.

A child is merely an "easy" manipulable opportunity for sex. There is no exclusive attraction to children.

These might be part of a picture of a personality disorder etc.

They are more common than "true" paedophilia therefore their behaviour is wider.

Apparently the only times she showed emotion in court was when her cats were mentioned, maybe her bedroom shown, and when the registrar gave evidence.

The babies' horrific deaths and their parents' destroyed lives ...nada.

Me, me, me, me, me.

(She also developed convenient amnesia about pretty much everything that she didn't think would benefit her).