To be angry about the new "free" nursery hours

[pimlicopubber]

We're not eligible for the new "free" hours starting at 9 months, because my husband is lucky enough to be earning over 100k. However, I earn far from that, so 2 sets of nursery fees are more than my salary. We live in London with 2 small children.

We are comfortable, but don't splash out, we shop at Aldi and don't own a car. Our salaries basically evaporate after paying rent and nursery fees, yet the government is treating us like we are the Kardashians when it comes to the marginal tax rate.

As a result of the "free" hours that don't actually cover nursery costs, our nursery increased fees for everyone, because they need to cross-subsidize the free hours. Also, the ratio of caregivers dropped from 1:4 to 1:5 and we can't move to a slightly cheaper nursery further away, because they have incredibly long waiting lists due to the huge demand. I'm thinking of quitting work, even though it will be damaging to my career in the long term.

AIBU to be disappointed and angry that a policy that was supposed to motivate people to work has an opposite effect for our family?

I hear you. We earn well but feel poor, we managed but moved out of London doing remote work. We no longer need childcare so can finally start paying off mortgage. University fees are on its way, can only hope the children can survive by themselves, we have nothing left to give.

My little one should be getting 15 free hours when he turns three but every nursery we have visited/contacted is either full for years or doesn’t do term time only so will be £400-£600 a month which we just can’t afford 🤷‍♀️

it shows that you never made this kind of money, because if you did, you would know that high earners subsidise everyone else including you (who “didn’t feel the need” to earn more - sure you didn’t, because someone else is subsidising your use of public services!).
so these people don’t want magic “free” stuff - they just want to get back at least SOMETHING they paid for for everyone else

If the nursery fees are more than you earn why not stay at home and look after your children til they start school?

That’s how progressive tax works, yes. The more you earn the more you pay and that money is used to subsidise/help those who need it. If you start redirecting it back to those who don’t need the help it becomes pointless. The high earners get a functioning society, same as everyone else. They also get roads, police, armed forces, state schools, NHS, fire service , coastguard etc etc etc. That’s SOMETHING, right?
Edit. Just noticed the very rude ‘didn’t feel the need to earn more’ segment. I didn’t feel I needed more. I couldn’t earn more because I was a teacher. That’s the thing. There are lots of absolutely vital jobs with pay below these high levels, and lots of jobs at them we would probably never notice if they vanished. I had no free nurser6 hours as. Single patent in the 90s, by the way, so don’t worry about how much I’ve been heroically subsidised by you awfully generous high earning types. I got child tax credits for a bit, and child benefit. Otherwise no benefits in my adult life.

You are out of touch, it is now absolutely the going rate. Your figures are correct from 2-3 years ago

How much over £100k does your DH earn? You need to take off pension AND you can also take off an extra 25p per £1 of pension deducted if your pension provider has already given your DH tax relief at basic rate.

You would almost think that this plan was not designed to benefit working parents, but rather to benefit Sunak's wife, who runs a massive chain of nurseries.

i am familiar with the concept of progressive taxation thank you very much.
however there is a concept and there is implementation of a concept which can vary hugely between various countries. In the UK lots of people do not contribute at all and the taxation income is disproportionately coming from a small percentage of high earners. Disproportionately as in unsustainably. And policies like this- which encourage high earners to make less money, pay into pension or go part time, because they need childcare to keep working, are going to hurt the revenues and ultimately those who rely on these high earners to prop them up

I'm guessing you don't work in STEM
as your maths ain't mathing. Or you have a shit ton of young kids.

Agree. And don't forget these earners are taxed significantly and more than contribute to the public purse.

Ypu didn’t seem familiar with it. Also, no apology for your rude assumption that I was a scrounged - while still wanting extra benefits for yourself?
Yes, we could manage things better in this country, the Tories have really fucked it all over, but it’s still pointless to redistribute money to people who don’t need it. Everyone is poor when their children are in nursery (and yes, I think that could be managed better too) but it’s only a couple of years and I don’t think too many will give up jobs they can’t get back for the sake of a few years.

Isn’t the fundamental question actually “why is pre school education not state provided in the same way as primary and secondary?”. It is ridiculous that both Labour and Conservative policies seemingly disregard the importance of early years education.

There is the question of how we would pay for state nursery education…in the same way we pay for primary and secondary education albeit with tax increases across the board to reflect the increased cost.

That, to me at least, seems more sensible than exorbitant childcare costs, a poorly applied and frankly unfair system of free hours, and underfunded nurseries (despite the exorbitant fees) who pay their staff a basic wage.

Preschool education should be about what is best for all children and the future of our society, and not based upon what their parents can or cannot afford.

I’ll get off my soap box now…

Please outline how my calculations are incorrect

I don't think women should ever think of childcare costs as coming out of their salary rather than out of the joint pot.

That's a rationale for women giving up careers which they later regret.

Childcare isn't your little luxury. It's a cost of parenting and should be born by parents - both of them.

Given the increased support for early years childcare, it seems as though the government are admitting that yes it’s crucial and they need to fund it…

… but have elected to exclude a small number of people from it on initial implementation, and now can’t row back on that without the inevitable ‘giving money to high earners’ headlines.

But - more people are being hit due to inflation and freezing of thresholds, so I anticipate this will become a bigger issue in the next few years. It’s certainly noticeable on mumsnet - seems like a user a day is discovering what this means for them!

Cry me a river.

I'm not in London and even I was paying more than £3k for my 2 boys to attend nursery.... and even that was a couple of years ago!

Let me please explain who the free nursery is designed for

It is for parents who when putting their kids in nursery who if had to pay would not be able to go to work due to cost of nursery being higher that wage they receive.

For instance
I worked with a lovely mum who had two children.
Before the free nursery she was paying £60 a day in nursery fees and earning £55 a day. She was having to pay extra in addition to working.

Now i am going to assume you are on minimum wage just because you have stated what you are on. Your combined income is 120k.
You can afford it.
Sorry but i don't see why the tax payer should help people on higher salaries.

Weird isn't it - that a bunch of over-promoted flag-shagging Tory toffs who just fancied being ace government finance whizzkids divvying up the common wealth for the sole benefit of their friends and family, with no regard for genuine public service, could mess up social policy so badly?

Having said what I said in my previous post.
I think that parents should not be funded for child care
But working parents should have tax break
For example ...your husband should not be taxed for the first 50k.of his salary if he has children under 3 and for mums the same.

High earners shouldn't get punished for being high earners.
The system is flawed against the middle class.

The working class if not entitled to free childcare should then have tax breaks on the first 50k.

Seems the middle class are funding the whole nation plus all the overseas war they fund (Ukraine and Israel).

The middle class are punished. For working hard.

It will pass. Your children will go to school. Then, unless you are planning private school, you will be better off. Just bite the bullet.

That's a mortgage loan of nearly 450k. At 2.5k pcm. I'd rather buy at that rental 🙈.

With two in nursery it might be worth putting what he earns above the threshold into his pension. Speak to an account they can work out the best option’

.

I'm pissed off with it too. DH does not earn above the 100k but does earn enough to make us ineligible for child benefit. I am doing a full time professional training course but it is paid by bursary so we can't qualify for the hours as we're not both 'working'.

No tax free childcare, no free hours, no child benefit and nursery have put up their costs to cover the 'free' hours. I feel a bit shafted!