To be angry about the new "free" nursery hours

[pimlicopubber]

We're not eligible for the new "free" hours starting at 9 months, because my husband is lucky enough to be earning over 100k. However, I earn far from that, so 2 sets of nursery fees are more than my salary. We live in London with 2 small children.

We are comfortable, but don't splash out, we shop at Aldi and don't own a car. Our salaries basically evaporate after paying rent and nursery fees, yet the government is treating us like we are the Kardashians when it comes to the marginal tax rate.

As a result of the "free" hours that don't actually cover nursery costs, our nursery increased fees for everyone, because they need to cross-subsidize the free hours. Also, the ratio of caregivers dropped from 1:4 to 1:5 and we can't move to a slightly cheaper nursery further away, because they have incredibly long waiting lists due to the huge demand. I'm thinking of quitting work, even though it will be damaging to my career in the long term.

AIBU to be disappointed and angry that a policy that was supposed to motivate people to work has an opposite effect for our family?

If you earn a lot lower than the cost of your childcare, there is a very rational argument for stopping working.

You family will end up with more money each month by you not going to work.

If the childcare bill is £3.5k a month and you take home £2.5k a month, I can’t imagine many would decide the best financial choice for their family was to keep working for a few years at a sizeable financial loss.

They pay 45% tax I think they should be entitled to some state help wouldn't you say? Or maybe we can reduce their tax rate instead by 10 or 20% so they can keep their own money for fees instead of having to pay their own and other people's?

As a result of the "free" hours that don't actually cover nursery costs, our nursery increased fees for everyone, because they need to cross-subsidize the free hours

YANBU about this bit

However, YA clearly BVVVVVVU to think that the public purse should subsidise childcare for families with such a HUGE income.
Seriously, do a bit of research. Have a look how few people earn anywhere near that. Try thinking about the millions of families who are struggling to balance the books every month without any prospect of owning their own homes, or prospect of things changing in 2 or 3 years when no longer paying Nursery fees.

Nursery fees are not to motivate everyone to work. They are to enable those families who would otherwise be on benefits to work. When I was younger and there was no help with chldcare, there were many single mothers that did not work as they could not afford to.

That maybe so but it's not easy for woman to get back into the work force after taking time out. Her husband should enquire about cutting hours temporarily at least. He will save an absolute fortune In tax, at least 8 thousand £, and even more with the saved national insurance, they will need less childcare and also be entitled to the subsidy. Well done UK government once again, so much for making work pay. They will lose far more than they would have done by giving them the funded hours.

If poor people ran the budget this country would be far better off!

I do have sympathies OP as earning nearly that and so feeling the pinch in London but my overall opinion is if your dh can’t put his net salary under £100k by pension contributions then actually you’re doing well enough to pay the fees.
If you’re struggling my suggestion is to look for a childminder as they’re often cheaper and have lovely settings.

I do think it should be on household income and not one earner and not quite sure what that’s about.

Who said they were?? Hardworking People shouldn't need to go without to go to work!

I don’t think people realise that in London / the South East now people might be paying:

1. £3k on a mortgage (that’s about £500k at 5%)
2. £3-4k on nursery fees if they have two children

That means it costs them potentially £7k a month to live in a pretty ordinary house and put two kids in nursery.

On a £100k salary, this leave them £1,300 a month short of meeting their expenditure on these two outgoings alone.

I know it sounds ridiculous - but being excluded from the childcare support feel very very unfair when trying to sustain the above.

The loss of the childcare support is easily over £1,000 a month in value. A massive penalty.

It’s far from ‘free’ even if you do qualify. Ours went down by 8%

The costs are brutal.

You would still be eligible for 15 hours of support the term after your kids turn three. And with two, a childminder/babysitter/nanny could well be cheaper.
As others have said, your income is a joint one and your children a joint responsibility. And although I agree the "cut off" is wrong, 100k (plus another income) is a lot, even in London.

The annoying thing is that you could have two parents both earning 80/90k and they will qualify. You have one parent earning just over 100k and one parent earning much much less and they don’t qualify!

I took a career break with child 2, as there was no free hours for anyone … got 15 hours when child was 3, term after, only, and together we earned significantly less than 100k.

there will always be those that benefit and those that do not.

The Op doesn’t have an issue with paying for her own childcare. Her issue is funding the ‘free’ childcare for others, as her childcare costs have increased to accommodate this

We’re in the same position OP. I don’t mind that we don’t get the funding but I’m a bit miffed that we’re now subsidising childcare for everyone else (through the increased nursery fees) when the government pretend that they’re the ones funding it all.

Well then you’ll be pleased to know that they currently subsidise couples with a joint salary of up to £199,999, provided that each member of that couple earns less than £100,000.

But just from a logic perspective… even that is quite bizarre.

a) you create a scenario whereby if you have a child you basically can’t earn £100-160k with massively losing money

b) you are forcing a group of people to massively over-contribute to their pensions 30 years before they get them for… why?

c) you are still paying the silly tax rate on a large % of income

d) it still acts as an incentive for partners with lower incomes to stop work, as their income may not cover the fees

Surely we want all these high earning parents to be spending their money in the economy, not saving it for use in 30 years time?

She does have an issue with paying for her own childcare, and she also has an issue with fees rising.

Your husband ears over £100,000 and you want subsidies? We both work full time and don’t earn that between us, I’m glad my tax isn’t being used to subsidise the rich.

Should they be excluded from accessing state education too?

The NHS?

Why specifically penalise parents of very young children?

Where does it say she she has an issue with paying it. She is merely stating that she doesn’t qualify. Her issue is that her fees have gone up as a result of the ‘free’ childcare. I am all for the government providing free childcare provided they pay for it and not expect the shortfall to be made up by others that don’t qualify for it

The Tory government were advised by many that this would be a sh*tshow.…and it is.

It is the usual poorly thought out, headline grabbing scheme, without any real substance and dropped on providers and LA’s at very short notice.

It’s a ridiculous system. We need to move away from putting the tax burden entirely onto higher earners rather than thinking about overall wealth.
I am not ashamed to say I put everything over £100k into my pension. It’s simply crazy to deal with the massive cliff edge.

Then why wouldn’t he put more into his pension and you would be better off and have his additional pension contributions on top?
Most of the time people claim they would be better off earning less money it’s actually just bullshit.

Why?
The tax they pay already subsidises everyone else - and presumably you.

It’s hard to actually pin point that fees have specifically increased due to this. Nursery fees have increased by around 10/15% once a year for us anyway.
How much are your fees actually increasing?