To be angry about the new "free" nursery hours

[pimlicopubber]

We're not eligible for the new "free" hours starting at 9 months, because my husband is lucky enough to be earning over 100k. However, I earn far from that, so 2 sets of nursery fees are more than my salary. We live in London with 2 small children.

We are comfortable, but don't splash out, we shop at Aldi and don't own a car. Our salaries basically evaporate after paying rent and nursery fees, yet the government is treating us like we are the Kardashians when it comes to the marginal tax rate.

As a result of the "free" hours that don't actually cover nursery costs, our nursery increased fees for everyone, because they need to cross-subsidize the free hours. Also, the ratio of caregivers dropped from 1:4 to 1:5 and we can't move to a slightly cheaper nursery further away, because they have incredibly long waiting lists due to the huge demand. I'm thinking of quitting work, even though it will be damaging to my career in the long term.

AIBU to be disappointed and angry that a policy that was supposed to motivate people to work has an opposite effect for our family?

Yes it’s crap. Our nursery has just increased fees by another 12% after a 10% increase 6 months ago. We are struggling but we aren’t allowed to have financial frustrations or issues according to Mumsnet because we earn SO MUCH MONEY.

I agree it makes no sense. DP and I are actually both just under the threshold and qualify but cumulatively make much more than our friends, who don’t (the wife has a much higher salary than the husband who is in the public sector). It doesn’t feel fair and also massively disadvantages single parents.

Well OP does work and presumably pays her taxes and NI. If all her earnings are taken up with nursery fees and she quits work then she will no longer contribute. That said, they won’t be paying nursery fees for ever.

Well quite. And the same applies to its affect on her taxes.

I had the same. My salary was £200 less than nursery fees a month. I hated my job so it was an easier decision to leave but now that I’m not working I fear that I will never be able to go back to the level I was. It is very frustrating that as a family you are paying very high taxes to support initiatives you cannot access! No problem with paying high taxes for quality services but seems we are paying tonnes to get nothing back.

If you both earned 75k would you be able to afford to give up work and be a SAHM though, living on 75k between you and keeping your current lifestyle?

It quite literally is though, there are recent statistics available that show the average nursery fee is not 2k in London.

I currently have 2 children under 3 in nursery on the border of zone 2/3 so I last looked at nursery pricing incredibly recently actually.

It's funded not free ..never free. On someone on less money working NHS I took home £5 after a 7 hour job on free hours. I gave up my NHS job.

Yes. Also not eligible and have seen fees increase. And I have twins so, you know, two little people in nursery concurrently. I love our nursery but it is galling.

How am I being obtuse? She doesn’t qualify for 30 hours free childcare as she earns over £100k. Her fees have recently increased. She believes this increase is due to funding free childcare for others.

i understood the point of a forum was to opine on others posts? Did I misunderstand?

To be clear, no I don’t think anyone earning over £100k should be entitled to the 30 hours free childcare. Yes I do think that if the government is offering free childcare that they should fund it and not expect those that don’t qualify to subsidise it.

I take it you don’t care who pays for the childcare as long as you receive the subsidy?

@Mouswife 100% this. My husband self funded a masters and worked so hard to it get whilst working full time. Really pushed himself to get ahead in his field, because he loves it and is passionate about it. But you look around and think- is it worth it? The extra stress and being in a job that full on when he could step back and earn less, get more benefits and be in a similar financial situation.

People are not paying tax just through nursery years, they pay every month, every year more and more. You can’t keep taxing the hell out of everyone and expect people to strive to get promoted or strive to grow their business. People won’t work hard for no reward.

I agree the Tory tax burden is too high.
But after nursery years people are better off at all salary levels.

And for those saying £4k for two children in London is extreme… it’s really not. £1900/2k FT per child is the going rate in our neighbourhood (zone 2). And believe me, we looked everywhere. DC is starting in September

Could your DH maybe look into dropping a day to take his salary under 100k?

My DH earns over £100k and I heard about £35k working part time. I actually worked out we're financially better off both working four days than either of us working five once I'm back at work after maternity leave. It makes no sense and his employer is unlikely to agree to it unfortunately.

How did you draw that conclusion? I’ve said nothing to that effect at all. Again it just fits your narrative. I don’t even have children in nursery anymore.

I think the cut off should be based on household income if there has to be one, same with child benefit. Ultimately more often than not it’s women’s careers and finances who suffer in this situation and having it based on household income would even this out. Yes OP is lucky she can afford to give up work if she wants, many struggle to afford to work even with the funded hours, and I can see why there has to be a cut off somewhere. But it’s flawed that a couple
can earn 198k a year and get funded hours when others earning 100k a year cannot.

Well the prolific posting would say you are bothered and don’t actually understand the issues at hand.

Threads like this make a sole parent, childcare provider, feel so valued.

The free nursery places are an incentive for people on low incomes to get back into work and not rely on the state benefit system

As a single mum, when I had my daughter 10 years ago, I was only earning £26k and paying £900 a month on nursery fees. 😭Basically all of my salary- I wasn’t entitled to any nursery fee as back then there was no subsidy for children under three years old and I managed , I did get some working Tax credit but boy was it a struggle
you and your husbands salary combined is nearing what the prime minister earns , you don’t need free nursery hours - you just need to manage your expenses better
i have known People salaries like this but who are usually living somewhere very expensive, and of course you are right to live according to your salary , but when children come along you lose a lot of your money to child care fees, and things they need , so I would suggest maybe moving somewhere cheaper if you are just renting, switching to a community day nurseries rather than a private one , cutting back on non essentials such as holidays , and shopping for clothes and toiletries in discount stores - home bargains is amazing
100 K should be more than enough for you both to live on with two children. I managed on £26,000.
I took my daughter to a community day nursery it was near a housing estate but it was wonderful, at 2-3 yrs old she was writing her name and reciting the alphabet . They also potty trained her.

Nursery fees are a joint expense, why are they coming out of your salary alone?

Well said! I sympathise, OP.

£100k is around £6k a month after tax and NI. Your DH probably earns more than this, plus whatever you earn. You can afford childcare as well as a nice place in London. After deductions, our take home pay as a couple is £4k a month.

The system is crap and I think the free hours/child benefit should be universal.

I think it’s fair enough childcare isn’t subsidised over a certain amount (but should be household income I think as 2 people earning £99k would benefit but 1 earning £100k and their partner not working wouldn’t) but it is massively unfair that nursery have then put fees up to cover the losses so you’re actually paying even more.