To be angry about the new "free" nursery hours

[pimlicopubber]

We're not eligible for the new "free" hours starting at 9 months, because my husband is lucky enough to be earning over 100k. However, I earn far from that, so 2 sets of nursery fees are more than my salary. We live in London with 2 small children.

We are comfortable, but don't splash out, we shop at Aldi and don't own a car. Our salaries basically evaporate after paying rent and nursery fees, yet the government is treating us like we are the Kardashians when it comes to the marginal tax rate.

As a result of the "free" hours that don't actually cover nursery costs, our nursery increased fees for everyone, because they need to cross-subsidize the free hours. Also, the ratio of caregivers dropped from 1:4 to 1:5 and we can't move to a slightly cheaper nursery further away, because they have incredibly long waiting lists due to the huge demand. I'm thinking of quitting work, even though it will be damaging to my career in the long term.

AIBU to be disappointed and angry that a policy that was supposed to motivate people to work has an opposite effect for our family?

Exactly this.

I have quit my job as a teacher because of the financial hit to our household. DH had part time/flexi/compressed hours/whatever magical request people put in rejected. So now the state has paid to train me, I enjoyed my job (and think I was pretty good at it) but now I’m a SAHM, and my school are down a teacher.

The system is stupid but no system should be subsidising people with a 6 figure income.

Fair. They shouldn’t get it either. Should be done on household income.

Why should they? I'm sick of seeing this drivel... is it their fault they are have been successful where others haven't? This is where people go wrong and high earners get fed up and putting in more and more and seeing absolutely nothing for it. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind helping people worse off if they got abit of help themselves for the short 4 years they need to fund childcare.... People are so short sighted. Every single time I see another post like yours on here I begin to understand why high earners begrudge paying this ridiculously eye watering tax. Personally I hope OPs husband cuts his hours. When he does those low earners will lose 8 to 10k of the contribution he's been making towards help for them....

Are you trying to suggest a term time childminder, anywhere, even London, was more money than your salary as a teacher? Because that seems incredibly unlikely.

You wanted to become a SAHM and that’s fine, to pin it on childcare subsidies being limited due to your husband’s high salary is disingenuous.

Eh? I have no kids in nursery. I got no free hours at all back in the 90s. And I don’t understand the rest. It’s innumerate nonsense. If someone earns 15k they will (rightly) keep 100%. Should that mean someone on 102836392027383930k keeps 100%? Or even someone on 30k. Or 50k. Or 100k?

Actually, yes. There should probably be free nursery all round. Since there isn’t, though, those who can afford it will have to pay up.

Not the spawn of the devil at all. But on a very decent household wage that many can only dream of.

£2k very average here - only one local nursery is less than that and it’s £1900.

To even use any free hours now requires attending minimum four days a week too - and some nurseries aren’t even offering the new ones.

The childcare support should be universal.

In this case the higher earner should reduce their hours such that they earn under 100k and the lower earner should do training or more hours and increase their salary. Salary disparity is not very healthy generally which is why the tax system discourages it

Yet here you are. Post a lot on these threads for someone not bothered or jealous.

@cardibach there would be more funds for everyone (in both the short & long term) if the currently system did not disincentivize work.

4k a month in London is not extreme at all for two children especially if they were full time. I pay £107 a day for one child in a good but very normal nursery outside of London. The cheapest I found nearby was £80 a day and this was over a year ago. When did you last look at nursery pricing?

Why? A newly trained teacher is only 28k before tax... the child minder would be £1k a month easy so after everything else really doesn't leave very much to live on for an entire year.... its impossible actually

It absolutely should be on household earnings. It’s crazy that two people can earn 99,999 and get the benefits, but if just one person in a household earns 100,000 you lose so much.

But also, after a couple of tough years of childcare, once they get to school you will be laughing. You’ll be used to a tight budget and the sudden influx of cash will be like winning the lottery.

Additional Pension contributions would only be for the time the children aren’t in school so possibly quite a short period. It’s also an excellent way of saving for your children as you can do a draw down from 55 and give them part of a lump sum say towards a house deposit. I think between 100-125k you’re not much better off with preschool age children in childcare given the entitlement you lose so why not bank it in a pension for yourself (and ultimately them) instead? I think a previous poster said she was only £2k a year better off for her pay rise, so pension it all instead?

Over 125k you do benefit more from being over 100k so probably not worth your while sorting additional pension contributions etc.

Interested. Not bothered or jealous. My DD went to nursery before funded hours.
Edit: ‘thesethreads’? I think this is the only one about nursery hours I’ve ever commented 9n.

Or alternatively, drop some hours so they fall under the threshold and get the full free hours. Bit of a shitter for the tax take, but hey ho.

YANBU. It’s ridiculous. My husband earns £120k. We are in an expensive area of the country. I am an ICU nurse on 40k (if I was full time.) Currently on maternity with my second child. Not eligible for anything so my childcare bill for 2 children means I won’t go back to work. So that’s another nurse leaving an already short staffed profession and I won’t be paying tax or into my pension.

Yet if we both earned 75k we’d be getting the free hours. I’d be back working and contributing, and it’s better for the economy in the long run as we’d have some disposable cash to spend. It should be done on household income.

YANBU. People who work and earn well are mowed down by this government. If everyone decides to go and work at Tesco, they’ll be no one left to pay for everyone else. The next government need to think about that.
that is why communism doesn’t work - people won’t train for years to be doctors if they are taking home the same as the cleaner. It’s a no brainer.

It should be done on household income, whatever that is. But the big problem being the benfut system and tax system is separate. They can't tell who is linked to who and it would currently be very complicated. The same goes for child benefit, which they are actually planning on bringing in. It's just going to take time and money.

Also the government labels this as 'free' childcare hours when in reality it isn't and nurseries do net get enough funding to pay for the hours that are offered. We have seen local nurseries close as they can't afford to run due to these free hours. Either that or they just can't offer them, that is why fees have gone up and so have ratios. I imagine is worse in London as they will have even higher building and wage costs then those outside London. I have no idea if the government are offering London nurseries extra but I wouldn't imagine so and if other nurseries are struggling then it will be more expensive for London nurseries.

They aren’t though, are they? And nursery years are short. After that they are massively better off. It’s all nonsense.

The decent child care round us has an 18 month waiting list. There was one childminder I found who is term time only and affordable, but no spaces. By the time I’ve factored in commuting costs (I don’t drive), then yes, I’m working at a loss.

I agree that the term time only childminder would have been financially viable. Unfortunately >£150/day isn’t. Possibly our fault for not getting DD down for a (cheap) nursery space when I was less than 3 months pregnant.

Being a SAHM is a real privilege, I don’t deny that. But for us it was also a financial decision.